Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
Jimi Dean Barrett
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Jimi Dean Barrett »

Can't find anything for "Cre/ation" but Pink Floyd made it to number 19 in the album charts.

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/

Well that's understandable. There was a lot of competition in the charts these days and- CLIFF RICHARD?!! #-o
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by jambo »

He just had an album come out.

He' also sold almost as many albums as Pink Floyd...
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by MoreOrLess »

I'v been hearing that about Pompeii but for me its a significant improvement over any other version I'v heard, less harsh and MUCH better balanced(especially reducing the cymbals in the mix) although One of These Days perhaps pushes the EQ a bit far making the drums sound rubbery at points. Perhaps helps that my standard equalisation is heavy on the bass and my top end hearing isn't great? still though the same is true for the original mix and that's don't something I listen to often outside of the film due to the harshness.

Perhaps similar with Obscured? doesn't sound that harsh to me although whether its "better" is questionable. The intension to me seems to be to try and bring it more inline with latter Floyd albums sound wise but you could argue its original sound suited a lot of the material, still I think if your going to bother with remixing at all you might as well try to create something significantly different.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

Something that I find quite interesting:

Pink Floyd's material for the Zabriskie Point movie had been released in various increments over the years, this box acting as the latest episode. There is a full length album of it out there now:

Zabriskie Point (total length: 90:37)
01. Heart Beat, Pig Meat 03:12 (1970 - the original soundtrack album)
02. Crumbling Land 04:16 (1970 - the original soundtrack album)
03. Come in Number 51, Your Time Is Up 05:01 (1970 - the original soundtrack album)
04. Country Song 04:37 (1997 reissue, bonus disc)
05. Unknown Song 06:01 (1997 reissue, bonus disc)
06. Love Scene (Version 6) 07:26 (1997 reissue, bonus disc)
07. Love Scene (Version 4) 06:45 (1997 reissue, bonus disc)
08. The Violent Sequence 05:39 (2011 - as Richard Wright "Us and Them" demo, on the DSofM Immersion set)
09. On The Highway 01:16 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
10. Auto Scene Version 2 01:13 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
11. Auto Scene Version 3 01:31 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
12. Aeroplane 02:18 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
13. Explosion 05:47 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
14. The Riot Scene 01:40 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
15. Looking At Map 01:57 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
16. Love Scene Version 7 05:03 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
17. Love Scene Version 1 03:26 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
18. Take Off 01:20 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
19. Take Off Version 2 01:12 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
20. Love Scene Version 2 01:56 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
21. Love Scene (Take 1) 02:16 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
22. Unknown Song (Take 1) 05:56 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
23. Love Scene (Take 2) 06:40 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
24. Crumbling Land (Take 1) 04:09 (2016 - The Early Years 1965-1972)
Jimi Dean Barrett
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Jimi Dean Barrett »

I thought 1967-1972 would of been counted as individual sales.
But the box is in its fourth week, and down to 84.
DSOTM racing back up to greet it.
The band appeared to have fared better than Bob Dylan!

http://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

p.s. (as per my last post)

The same list as above, now alphabetised, reveals there is still more in the vaults:

01. Aeroplane 02:18 (2016)
02. Auto Scene Version 2 01:13 (2016)
03. Auto Scene Version 3 01:31 (2016)
04. Come in Number 51, Your Time Is Up 05:01 (1970)
05. Country Song 04:37 (1997)
06. Crumbling Land Take 1 04:09 (2016)
07. Crumbling Land 04:16 (1970)
08. Explosion 05:47 (2016)
09. Heart Beat, Pig Meat 03:12 (1970)
10. Looking At Map 01:57 (2016)
11. Love Scene Take 1 02:16 (2016)
12. Love Scene Take 2 06:40 (2016)
13. Love Scene Version 1 03:26 (2016)
14. Love Scene Version 2 01:56 (2016)
15. Love Scene Version 4 06:45 (1997)
16. Love Scene Version 6 07:26 (1997)
17. Love Scene Version 7 05:03 (2016)
18. On The Highway 01:16 (2016)
19. Take Off 01:20 (2016)
20. Take Off Version 2 01:12 (2016)
21. The Riot Scene 01:40 (2016)
22. The Violent Sequence 05:39 (2011)
23. Unknown Song Take 1 05:56 (2016)
24. Unknown Song 06:01 (1997)
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

Wolfpack wrote: It's final. No 'Seabirds' in the box set! :cry:
Only some instrumental (mis?)labeled as such.

What a let down! I've been excited for months,
telling people about soon being able to hear this song. [-o<
And... it's just not in the box! ](*,)
Andy Jackson commented on the Seabirds issue in a Q&A session, additional details are on the SH forum. The included instrumental comes from the original tape box labelled "Seabirds", and it is Pink Floyd's original musical solution for the seabirds scene which the film director rejected. Pink Floyd then composed a song that we know (and expected in the box) as "Seabirds". The tape of the song exists, Andy and his team looked at it, but the vocals turned out to be inaudible. They could not find a way to bring the volume up, so it is excluded from the set. It is unfortunate, but it is not a rookie mislabeling mistake (far from it).
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Massed Gadgets »

Hadrian wrote:
Wolfpack wrote: It's final. No 'Seabirds' in the box set! :cry:
Only some instrumental (mis?)labeled as such.

What a let down! I've been excited for months,
telling people about soon being able to hear this song. [-o<
And... it's just not in the box! ](*,)
Andy Jackson commented on the Seabirds issue in a Q&A session, additional details are on the SH forum. The included instrumental comes from the original tape box labelled "Seabirds", and it is Pink Floyd's original musical solution for the seabirds scene which the film director rejected. Pink Floyd then composed a song that we know (and expected in the box) as "Seabirds". The tape of the song exists, Andy and his team looked at it, but the vocals turned out to be inaudible. They could not find a way to bring the volume up, so it is excluded from the set. It is unfortunate, but it is not a rookie mislabeling mistake (far from it).
I've just discovered this myself and am thoroughly disappointed. Seabirds was pretty much the reason I bought the entire boxed set. :smt092 :smt089
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Wolfpack »

Hadrian wrote:Andy Jackson commented on the Seabirds issue in a Q&A session, additional details are on the SH forum. The included instrumental comes from the original tape box labelled "Seabirds", and it is Pink Floyd's original musical solution for the seabirds scene which the film director rejected. Pink Floyd then composed a song that we know (and expected in the box) as "Seabirds". The tape of the song exists, Andy and his team looked at it, but the vocals turned out to be inaudible. They could not find a way to bring the volume up, so it is excluded from the set. It is unfortunate, but it is not a rookie mislabeling mistake (far from it).
Questions about 'Seabirds':
- What tape with inaudible vocals did they find?
Just the audio as in the movie, with the dialogue over it?
- If that tape has no movie dialogue,
would "inaudible vocals" be a reason to exclude it?
They included Sweden 1967 and (instrumental) Beechwoods,
and they included BBC 1967 with a horrible audio quality.
- Did they ask Pink Floyd members for a private copy?
I think I read at Steve Hoffman,
Pink Floyd members weren't approached for information about recordings,
because they were thought not to remember those recordings anyway.
(Later, at SH, the 5.1 album mixes are said to have been excluded
because of a lack of communication...)
- How did the song got published as sheet music ("1969", "Lupus Music") in the 1970s?
There must have been a source to work from.


I'm just not convinced they really did search.
(Before the box set got announced, that is.)
If they did search and knew the recording is lost,
why didn't they specify the "Quicksilver Seabirds" as being entirely different?

Would they just admit if the song was overlooked,
making lots of people complain
about paying for a box set with lousy research?

Having a recording with "inaudible vocals"
and/or very inferior sound quality,
is not a reason to exclude it -
as the box set shows in other instances!
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Massed Gadgets »

I would have been disappointed, but okay with it if they'd just been upfront in the first place, but calling it 'Seabirds' in the track listing when it's not actually the song 'Seabirds' is deceptive and misleading. Maybe they thought, oh, it's just something from More and nobody cares about More anyway. But they are wrong. Now, obviously, there is a wealth of material in the set that I'm excited about hearing and having, but the very first thing I did after opening the boxset was pull out that specific disc and skipped to 'Seabirds' it. I was thinking as it was going, 'wow, I didn't realize Seabirds had such a long ambient intro'...I was thinking it was kind of like Cirrus Minor or something, but then the song never came. What upsets me is that they lead us to believe that Seabirds was on it. They could have just called it 'Ambient Jam' or 'Quicksilver Outtake' or even, as Wolfpack suggested, 'Quicksilver Seabirds'.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Wolfpack »

They didn't even manage to find tapes which are known to fans:
superior tapes of a lot of the BBC 1967 sessions. ](*,)

So, again, how really lost is 'Seabirds'? :?
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

Regarding "Seabirds" - I bothered to watch my box set copy of the movie More over the weekend, and here is what I discovered:

The actual movie scene with seabirds contains a version of Quicksilver, which is exactly what the box set track "Seabirds" is. That would be consistent with the box set team's statement that the original tape box labelled Seabirds (obviously referring to the scene) contained an instrumental which is included in the final product. It is also self evident why they called it "Seabirds".

Now the song folks expected to get can be heard during a party scene in the movie. Bootlegs call it "Seabirds", but it is evident that the title here comes from the lyrics (the part "But I can hear the sound of seabirds in my ear / Surf is high an' the sea is awash"). That could be a completely arbitrary title, assigned to the song by whoever was initially putting the bootleg out there. We actually have no idea what the band (or Roger Waters) called that song. In other words, fan expectations were/are based on potentially arbitrary bootleg titling of the More soundtrack material, something that the band has no obligations towards whatsoever.

That in itself, of course, does not explain what happened to the tape of the song in question. "Not being able to bring the vocals up" sounds to me as either tape deterioration (this stuff is almost 50 years old), or more likely only having access to the movie tape for that one (The Committee scenario) which is of inferior audio quality (i.e. containing only the scene music in the background but not the whole number, having dialogue over it - which destroys it for me, and so on).
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

Wolfpack wrote:They didn't even manage to find tapes which are known to fans
Bringing unofficial (i.e. bootleg) materials - sourced from Zeus knows where - into official canon for a proper release is a legal nightmare and a copyright minefield. Unfortunately.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Wolfpack »

Hadrian wrote:
Wolfpack wrote:They didn't even manage to find tapes which are known to fans
Bringing unofficial (i.e. bootleg) materials - sourced from Zeus knows where - into official canon for a proper release is a legal nightmare and a copyright minefield. Unfortunately.
They didn't need Zeus for the best bootleg materials.
They only needed to approach their fans, instead of being secretive.

Legal nightmare and a copyright minefield?
If a fan would amazingly put out a bootleg with 'Seabirds',
or some best sounding BBC radio performances,
wouldn't Pink Floyd be allowed to just use it as they wish?
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Re: Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

Post by Hadrian »

Soundtrack tapes for More have their owners, initially it was the film studio because soundtracks are essentially considered work for hire.

If you want to put out more of the unreleased music on a record at this point, the normal procedure would be to approach the owners and ask for their permission, which could be denied (unreasonable), allowed for free (unlikely), allowed for a fee (likely) or allowed for a percentage of the profit the box set generates (most likely).

If there was an alternative (better sounding) source out there, and the band used it, they could end up in court because whatever the source is it was originally made from the tapes owned by whoever owns More materials.

The same thing applies to BBC tapes.