David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

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David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

http://www.davidgilmour.com/index.htm

Gary McKinnon is a Scot, accused of the computer hacking of US military Web sites, and under threat of extradition to the US to stand trial. He has thus far been unsuccessful in fighting extradition, under the current extradition treaty between the UK and the US, seen by many as one-sided.

Gary's mother Janis Sharp is organising a 'sing-in' protest on Thursday 2nd April, involving a multi-artist rendition of Graham Nash's 'Chicago', which originally referenced the 'Chicago 7', arrested for protesting at the 1968 Democratic Convention. David has contributed a vocal part to the backing track, although plans are not yet finalised re: other artists' involvement.

David is not able to participate in person at the April 2nd protest, but said: "Gary McKinnon should not be being extradited to the USA for his naïve hacking. It is a heavy handed response from the US and it's hard to understand that the English justice system could not be more effectively used to prevent this. I am hoping that common sense will prevail".

Diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome by eminent psychologist Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, Gary McKinnon has been the subject of a radio play, The McKinnon Extradition, broadcast on BBC Radio 4. Further updates will appear as more information is received.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:14 pm

That thread was about the file sharing issue. You sent it off topic when you should have started a new post! :shock:

I linked to this thread in the newsletter that is sending out so this one shall remain active.




Why is David Gilmour supporting this chap anyway? I don't think he should be extradited if he didn't actually do anything malicious because the Americans have no respect for human rights when it comes to the treatment of foreign nationals.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by snifferdog » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:15 pm

Apparently it's because of the in-laws. According to this article on The Register.

This is a quote from the chap's mother
We've known Joe, Dave Gilmour's brother-in-law, since Gary was a child and Joe knows Gary is a good person," she writes. "Joe told David Gilmour and his sister Polly (Polly is David Gilmour's wife) and Dave immediately offered and emailed me to say he is happy to sing on our 'Sing In' recording/cd for Gary.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Damn!t » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:46 pm

If the guy did or tried to hack us military sites, I see no reason why he shouldnt bear the consequences for his actions.
I dont quite buy the naïve hacking bit of military sites but nevermind.
Extradition is another thing. He should be judged in his homeland.
But, since UK is and will be US's bitch, he will probably end up in Guantanamo with or without Davey lol.
Poor bloke.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by crazymountain » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:50 am

Ok, now there seems to be such a visceral reaction to the extradition of someone who hacked, or, if it was your house, breaking and entering, as the crime took place in America. Why shouldn't he be sent here for trial? And, another question for y'all; should governments, say the British Government for example, just put their military secrets on a website for all to view? How safe would you feel if the British government did that? I don't know how many lost friends in the train bombings in London or in the many terrorist attacks on your great country, but I lost one friend in the Trade Center attack. I have a nephew who lived a quarter mile from there and can STILL SMELL THAT DAY! In other words, he was destroyed at the young age of 23. I guess you wouldn't mind if I came and broke in to your house, inspected everything in the house and decided to take items that I really liked. That would be ok, eh? I would love to have a Gilmour guitar or two. Hacking is just the same thing except it is data that is stolen, secrets (y'all believe that you are still allowed to have parts of your life that you keep to yourself, don't you?). I certainly do not want the Chinese, Iran, Russia, Syria or any other government to know the military secrets of either England or America. DO you? Now if this hacker has some mental defect, then put him in an institution for care. Oh yeah, the Government overseer of medical decisions might not approve expensive treatments. I will just assume that David and other British citizens condone theft, muslim bombings and will always have an excuse for law breaking folk.

Now, I'm an American and really take offense at the remark that we in America, do not respect foreigners civil rights. We respect civil rights here. What we DON'T respect is the folks that attacked our country, take every chance they can to kill. Y'all should know, and the Brits are MUCH harder on terrorists than we are. I don't care just how much you try to appease the criminally insane (Chamberlain and Hitler for instance in the thirties and the Muslim terrorists now) they STILL want you dead. After all, no matter how liberal, progressive whatever you call it nowadays, to the Muslim, you are STILL an infidel and they WILL kill you, given the chance.

You know, we have been seeing a lot of Daniel Haddon lately on television. Take my advice, listen to him. He speaks truth. We Americans have a choice next year and some this year to change our government piece by piece via elections. By choosing to be part of a continental country, the English now do not have a choice. Your great country is just one of a collage of varying points of view and interchangeable leaders. Our country, thanks to Obama, even though we are 40% of world GDP, we are only one vote in the G 20. So, sadly, we now know how it is for y'all.

Good Luck, folks!

Jeff

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by you2k » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:18 am

I am neither England born (but have roots) nor American (no roots - phew!). I agree completely with David's statement. It IS the American iron fist trying to swat this guy down. And it was naive to hack into the military system without hiding himself better. He should have known to use better protection ;)

If guilty, he should face the penalty... but in his OWN country. He could never get fair treatment in the States, the apparent "victim".

@ crazymountain:
The World Trade Center attacks in 2001 were, at a minimum, supported by your own government. The rest of the world knows it, why don't you? Quit blaming outsiders. Furthermore, why is it that Americans can't play by the same rules they expect others to? Do you think the US would extradite an American (to Pakistan or China or N. Korea or... for example) if an American were caught hacking their military or government systems? And before you argue about the nature of those countries, take a look at your own Git-Mo. Take a look at your Patriot Act. Prisoners are no safer in the US than they are in any other country.
Let the British deal with their own. I'm sure they are capable.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:41 pm

If I had secrets of national importance, I sure as hell would not store them on a machine accessible from the fecking internet? Who does that? :shock:

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by thehumanzoo » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:26 pm

To me it seems a complete whitewash and waste of time prosecuting this guy. He clearly has not caused any problems other than the fact that he has found a security loophole in the American military data systems. Although not desirable, this man is not a danger to anyone - he claims to have been looking for evidence pointing to extra-terrestrial life - and has highlighted the flaws in the system. It would, however, have been undesirable if this had been committed by someone wanting to cause major attrocaties - it is perhaps lucky that this man was first. It seems that he is simply being held as a scapegoat for the shortcomings of an embarrasing US security breach.

It would serve no useful purpose to anyone to further carry out criminal proceedings against this man. To a person with his mental condition, extradition could potentially irrepairably damage him further when he clearly has the talent to offer a lot to offer society. It is undeniably more beneficial to all sides to give him the guidance so that he may understand what he should not be doing with his computer work. Perhaps he could be used in the future to test improved security systems?

In complete agreement with Mr. Gilmour, I hope that the UK Government chooses to let this man stay in his home environment and, indeed, that the US shows the good grace and understanding to drop unnecessary criminal charges against someone who was never intent on causing terrorist attacks (or any other form of major security breach) against any persons, region or country.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by wils » Fri May 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Gary McKinnon, inspired by the disclosure project, was looking for evidence of UFO coverups and zeropoint energy. He did not cause damage.
The american authorities cannot bring charges unless there is at least $5000 damage involved ...so magically he is supposed to have caused $5000 damage on every machine he visited. There were no passwords and no firewalls. he left notes telling them their security was shit. He admits access but not damage and would face a UK trial and UK sentence.
He has Aspergers Syndrome which means that he has a lack of understanding of social mores and customs, and has passions that become obsessions ie UFOs.

What really is frightening is that any british citizen can be extradited to the US on a mere suspicion, and without trial get sent to america where you sit on remand in a high security prison (because foreign nationals are considered a flight risk) until you do a plea bargain, even though you may have done nothing, because otherwise, it is never going to end. But we cannot extradite an american unless we show "Probable Cause".
David is absolutely right, not just for a vulnerable guy who did something stupid, but for every british citizen... and every british citizen should stand behind him.
British people sould have equal rights to american people... no more no less.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Fri May 15, 2009 8:26 pm

wils wrote:Gary McKinnon, inspired by the disclosure project, was looking for evidence of UFO coverups and zeropoint energy. He did not cause damage.
The american authorities cannot bring charges unless there is at least $5000 damage involved ...so magically he is supposed to have caused $5000 damage on every machine he visited. There were no passwords and no firewalls. he left notes telling them their security was shit. He admits access but not damage and would face a UK trial and UK sentence.

1 - He has Aspergers Syndrome which means that he has a lack of understanding of social mores and customs, and has passions that become obsessions ie UFOs.

2 - What really is frightening is that any british citizen can be extradited to the US on a mere suspicion, and without trial get sent to america where you sit on remand in a high security prison (because foreign nationals are considered a flight risk) until you do a plea bargain, even though you may have done nothing, because otherwise, it is never going to end. But we cannot extradite an american unless we show "Probable Cause".

David is absolutely right, not just for a vulnerable guy who did something stupid, but for every british citizen... and every british citizen should stand behind him.

3 - British people sould have equal rights to american people... no more no less.
1 - If he is high functioning enough to recognise that other people are separate from himself and that those people could have desires to cause harm to the US systems, then he is of complete sane mind and capable of knowing right from wrong. So I am not too sure I agree with that!

2 - But you are right, a UK citizen should not be extradited to a foreign land without a) evidence and b) without a ratified agreement between the two countries for extraditions and c) to a land where they abuse and torture foreign nationals including British Citizens in Guantanamo.

3 - I think we pretty much share the same rights even though we have not got a written constitution like the USA. I do, however, believe the UK legal system, based on hundreds of years of development, is a superior one to the US in terms of common sense, equity and fairness.

Gary McKinnon's Judicial Review is set to start on 9th June.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by wils » Fri May 15, 2009 9:02 pm

On your first point I'm not at all sure I understand what you are saying.

Aspergers Syndrome is High functioning Autism, people with Aspergers are usually of higher than average intelligence. Their problem is that they do not understand social relationships and social customs, how to behave with other people which is often why they relate to computers. They have passions which easily become obsessions which they often will pursue to the exclusion of else even when its not rational, they have a heightened sense of justice and often tell the truth even to their own detriment. He was on a quest which he thought was for the betterment of all (free energy UFO's etc.) It was naive. It was stupid. and certainly not the best thing to do... but it does not deserve 70 years in a hard-line prison in a foreign land without a trial by his peers (he does not have peers in US)

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Fri May 15, 2009 9:09 pm

How could low development of social interaction skills make him not know right from wrong? I take it his high academic development would ensure he realised that what he was doing was illegal and faced imprisonment for doing it?

Either way, he should not be extradited to face possible torture at the hands of the Americans.

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by wils » Sat May 16, 2009 12:08 am

He was on a quest for the betterment of all, I'm sure he knew he was not supposed to be there, but as he was not causing any damage and not doing any harm and there was no passwords.......
The hi tech police told him he would get 6months community service and they were also computer people, so, without a lawyer, he admitted access, but no damage.
The US waited 3 years until the 'no evidence required' treaty was signed in secret without any parliamentary discussion supposedly for "terrorists" but to date no so-called "terrorists" have been extradited only businessmen, online bookmakers (legal in UK) british airways bosses, 70yr old hotelliers, a businessman for price fixing (legal in UK at the time), people selling items on line (legal in UK) and Gary, a vulnerable guy who embarrassed them... no terrorists!

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Re: David's Vocal Support For McKinnon Extradition Protest

Post by Keith Jordan » Sat May 16, 2009 10:31 am

Reminds me of that stupid law that was enacted in the UK allowing Councils to spy on its own people for issues concerning crime and terrorism. They have been using it to hire private detectives to make sure people live where they say they live when trying to get into the catchment area for a specific school they want their kids to go to. All sorts of stuff.

We live in a corrupt, power-obsessed, paranoid police state! 8-[