"Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April 21

All discussion related specifically to Roger Waters.
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by Wolfpack »

kjek1 wrote:it's toothless like a worn out old guy
Smell the Endless River... :lol:

Oh well, as longtime Barrett fan I'm used to worn out Floyd members. :P
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by kjek1 »

What's the obsession with the endless river? An album of outtakes, similar to TFC really :D
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by Kerry King »

Wolfpack wrote: Oh well, as longtime Barrett fan I'm used to worn out Floyd members. :P
That's one thing about Barrett. He didn't keep sticking around in the marketplace well past his expiration date.

In the end it was Roger Waters who wore out his welcome with random precision. Ironic, isn't it?
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by Wolfpack »

kjek1 wrote:the endless river? An album of outtakes, similar to TFC really :D
'Animals' is an album of 'Wish You Were Here' outtakes,
more than 'The Final Cut' contains 'The Wall' outtakes... :lol:

Isn't 'The Final Cut' the last album on which Pink Floyd and Waters had anything really new to bring?
A clear new concept, only loosely connected to 'The Wall'.
In the album catalogue, the album is clearly identifiable as being the one about war.

Isn't it mostly rehash ever since? :P
Gilmour learning to fly, having yet another machine, greener grass,
while Waters watches television, cynically preaches about old and new wars.
Kerry King wrote:In the end it was Roger Waters who wore out his welcome with random precision. Ironic, isn't it?
Waters knew when it was time to stop, when it comes to being original.
Gilmour knew when it was time to cash in, teaching Waters a lesson in being a golden oldie.
At best, all Floyd and solo albums after 'The Final Cut' are mostly reminders of the "Classic Pink Floyd".
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by kjek1 »

Wolfpack wrote:
kjek1 wrote:the endless river? An album of outtakes, similar to TFC really :D
'Animals' is an album of 'Wish You Were Here' outtakes,
more than 'The Final Cut' contains 'The Wall' outtakes... :lol:

Isn't 'The Final Cut' the last album on which Pink Floyd and Waters had anything really new to bring?
A clear new concept, only loosely connected to 'The Wall'.
In the album catalogue, the album is clearly identifiable as being the one about war.

Isn't it mostly rehash ever since? :P
Gilmour learning to fly, having yet another machine, greener grass,
while Waters watches television, cynically preaches about old and new wars.
Kerry King wrote:In the end it was Roger Waters who wore out his welcome with random precision. Ironic, isn't it?
Waters knew when it was time to stop, when it comes to being original.
Gilmour knew when it was time to cash in, teaching Waters a lesson in being a golden oldie.
At best, all Floyd and solo albums after 'The Final Cut' are mostly reminders of the "Classic Pink Floyd".

That's not true though is it? All the songs written for Animals and Wish You Were here were deemed worthy from the minute they were written. They were picked to fit a theme for an album, at no point were any discarded because they weren't good enough

The final cut on the other hand....well they were left overs not good enough for the wall, and that was a poor album by PF standards, decent Waters solo album though.

I think if Waters truly knew when it was time to stop The Final Cut wouldn't exist.
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by danielcaux »

theaussiefloydian wrote:Bob Ezrin needs a good slap for 'One Slip' and 'Yet Another Movie'.
You think so? Those two tracks and Terminal Frost are actually my favorites from AMLoR!! :smt102

"One Slip" sounds almost like Discipline era King Crimson!

Which I guess it's only natural since it has Tony Levin in it :)
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by theaussiefloydian »

danielcaux wrote:
theaussiefloydian wrote:Bob Ezrin needs a good slap for 'One Slip' and 'Yet Another Movie'.
You think so?
Sadly, yeah. The thing I hate the most is blown potential, and had that album not been produced to sound like a standard 80's record then those two tracks would have been very different beasts. I'll listen to those songs, and sometimes I might enjoy them. But honestly barring the 'A New Machine' tracks, they are the worst produced songs on AMLOR in my opinion. Especially YAM. That one could have been so wonderful... I wish something became of the idea of remixing that album so it sounded more Floydian.
And 'Terminal Frost' could have also stood some better production, but I love that track because it contains a lot of emotion. I feel like it's the sort of thing one would hear in a dream about flying.
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Post by danielcaux »

Yeah I get your point. I used to hate AMLoR production too, because it sounded so 80s. But now it is actually one of the things I really like about it: it sounds so 80s that it's like jumping in a time machine and being thrown back in time.

As long as it's free from cheesy saxophones and uber emotional soul singers, it's all good 80s stuff for me. :)
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Re: "Is This The Life We Really Want" preorder starts April

Post by kjek1 »

AMLOR is a very mixed bag to me.

The production doesn't bother me much now, it is what it is, an 80's album. I like Sorrow and On The Turning Away
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Post by Wolfpack »

kjek1 wrote:The final cut on the other hand....well they were left overs not good enough for the wall, and that was a poor album by PF standards, decent Waters solo album though.
The "outtakes" story comes from Gilmour being bitchy,
who himself didn't have any material for either 'The Wall' or 'The Final Cut'.

Try to imagine Gilmour ever writing an album as great as 'The Final Cut'.
He can't do it as Pink Floyd, and he can't do it solo.

Sometimes outtakes by Waters can be better than whatever Gilmour puts out.
At least up to 'The Final Cut' (1983).

Gilmour is a great musician,
but he's never been as full of ideas as Barrett and Waters have been.


However, "Is This The Album We Really Want"?
Since 1979, there always seems to be some radio or television on the background.
And now there's a revisit of dogs barking on the background.
And Waters is being the singing politician again.

Since 1983, Waters seems to me like an old uncle retelling his stories over and over again.
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Post by kjek1 »

The Final Cut isn't a particularly good record though and frankly it's a piss poor Pink Floyd record.

Do you think Gilmour's lying? Or is it more likely as a member of the band he's privy to what were leftovers and what weren't? I mean the Final Cut does sound like a watered down version of The Wall, only even poorer musically.

Id rather listen to AMLOR than TFC, which is merely Roger rambling about his dad some more, set to the backdrop of really weak tunes. Fletcher memorial home and title track aside.

I keep hearing how Roger had fangs, he made Pink Floyd rock, yet the two most Waters dominated Floyd record is full of fairly weak melodies with practically no bite. That stuff is garbage compared to what was on Meddle, Dark Side and Wish You Were Here when the band were all chipping in, and it only got worse for him when he actually did go solo.
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Post by Wolfpack »

kjek1 wrote:Do you think Gilmour's lying? Or is it more likely as a member of the band he's privy to what were leftovers and what weren't? I mean the Final Cut does sound like a watered down version of The Wall, only even poorer musically.
Gilmour could be exaggerating.
He's human, you know.

Outtakes or not, 'The Final Cut' is a coherent, distinctive album like 'Dark Side of the Moon', 'Wish You Were Here', 'Animals' and 'The Wall'.
Not only for the music and the lyrics, but also for the cover art.
Neither Gilmour Floyd or Waters have made such a great, distinctive album since then.
kjek1 wrote:I keep hearing how Roger had fangs, he made Pink Floyd rock, yet the two most Waters dominated Floyd record is full of fairly weak melodies with practically no bite. That stuff is garbage compared to what was on Meddle, Dark Side and Wish You Were Here when the band were all chipping in, and it only got worse for him when he actually did go solo.
Two most Waters dominated Floyd albums, "full of fairly weak melodies with practically no bite"? Which ones?
As if 'A Momentary Lapse of Reason' (1987), 'The Division Bell' (1994) and 'The Endless River' (2014) are such strong albums. :lol:

I think 'The Final Cut' has a lot of great vocal lines.
'Not Now John' a weak melody? :shock:
And wouldn't Gilmour be to blame, for lack of contributions and for lack of enthusiasm?
What did he do, to make the 'The Final Cut' sessions a great experience? Being grumpy and writing nothing himself?
Waters, you do all the work while I'll criticize you. Was that the deal?
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Post by kjek1 »

This is where your mask slips and you go into full on Waters fanboy territory

Firstly, I didn't say AMLOR, TDB or TEL were such strong albums, they're each a million miles away from prime Floyd too. The Final Cut is a crap Pink Floyd album in my opinion, and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. It's a an hour of sulking with mediocre tunes. Not Now John is rocky, it's also the worst track on the album and I say that with it being dominated by Gilmour's heavy guitars and vocals.

What did Gilmour do? What could he do? According to he, Nick and Rick, Waters had his full on "my way or the highway" attitude by then. Of course you'll probably tell us that all 3 of them of liars and the egomaniac who promotes himself as "the creative genius" couldnt possibly commandeer the band in such a way :lol:

To be honest Dave and co probably didn't have a great deal to contribute, why would they? They didn't even want to go down the route of having a political album like that. Hard to invest yourself when your not happy with the basic framework from the get go.. But at the same time there's a very clear pattern going from Meddle to TFC, which is that from beyond Wish You Were Here the quality of music receded further and further as Waters really began dominate everything. Are Gilmour and co blamesss? Absoluely not. Did Waters ego become a problem and lead to the drop off in music quality? Every bit of evidence and general common sense says yes.

Their solo careers are further proof if you ask me. Even if you look at post Floyd, a tune like High Hopes is closer to "classic Floyd" than anything Rogers churned out, except maybe for Smell the roses, but that's just a repackaged Have A Cigar/Dogs so I'm not counting cover songs.

Anyway you guys that buy into this idea of Waters being the man and the rest merely being there to add a bit of gloss and glitter have probably held that view for decades, and nothing's really going to change your mind, even if all that we know about the band now strongly implies that that's bollocks.
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Post by Wolfpack »

kjek1 wrote:This is where your mask slips and you go into full on Waters fanboy territory
My mask slips? :shock:
Funny how you seem to be fully okay with going into full on Gilmour fanboy territory. :lol:
kjek1 wrote:The Final Cut is a crap Pink Floyd album in my opinion, and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. It's a an hour of sulking with mediocre tunes. Not Now John is rocky, it's also the worst track on the album and I say that with it being dominated by Gilmour's heavy guitars and vocals.
You're "not alone in thinking that"? Does it matter?
If quantities count, may I remind you that the albums 'Wish Were You Were Here', 'Animals' and 'The Wall' are among the most popular Pink Floyd albums?
kjek1 wrote:What did Gilmour do? What could he do? According to he, Nick and Rick, Waters had his full on "my way or the highway" attitude by then. Of course you'll probably tell us that all 3 of them of liars and the egomaniac who promotes himself as "the creative genius" couldnt possibly commandeer the band in such a way :lol:
And you are probably going to tell that Gilmour, Wright and Mason are angles, while Waters is the devil?

Barrett tripped away into the universe, his mother's cellar.
Wright snorts away an album.
Gilmour criticizes an album while writing nothing himself.
Mason races away in a car, leaving drum work to session drummers.
Hey! Let's hide all that by complaining about ambitious Waters being a terrible member! :lol:
kjek1 wrote:To be honest Dave and co probably didn't have a great deal to contribute, why would they? They didn't even want to go down the route of having a political album like that.
What creative alternatives did they have themselves?
At least, Waters had a vision for an album.
kjek1 wrote:there's a very clear pattern going from Meddle to TFC, which is that from beyond Wish You Were Here the quality of music receded further and further as Waters really began dominate everything.
I think 'The Wall' is musically one of the best Pink Floyd albums.
And it's one of the most popular Pink Floyd albums/concepts.
Is Waters mostly responsible for this? Then, that's a great job!
kjek1 wrote:a tune like High Hopes is closer to "classic Floyd" than anything Rogers churned out, except maybe for Smell the roses, but that's just a repackaged Have A Cigar/Dogs so I'm not counting cover songs.
'High Hopes' is like revisiting 'Fat Old Sun'.
kjek1 wrote:Anyway you guys that buy into this idea of Waters being the man and the rest merely being there to add a bit of gloss and glitter have probably held that view for decades, and nothing's really going to change your mind, even if all that we know about the band now strongly implies that that's bollocks.
Where are those guys?
I only seem to see a guy who buys into this idea of Gimour being the man. :lol:
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Post by theaussiefloydian »

Good Lord guys...
Look, for many years The Division Bell was my favourite album from Pink Floyd. It still has a very special place in my heart, as many of the tunes on that album made me feel like I was less alone in the world when I went through my uber-angsty teen phase a couple of years ago. Was it the best written, produced and composed Floyd record? Hell no. But it was my favourite, and still is on my top 5 despite this.
What is my point? Whilst the production quality of a record is objective, what one takes away from that album is totally subjective. One of my favourite albums right now (M83's debut album) is a terribly produced album, but my main takeaway from it is that it showcases their talent. The issue I take with The Final Cut is that it's not well produced like The Wall was and Waters hugely squandered Gilmour and Mason's creative efforts on the record, delegating Mason to the Holophonics (which in of itself is cool, but that's all he did for composition on the album.)
And yes, Waters did have a heavy 'do my way or piss off', which is not a good thing. There is no 'I' in 'band', if I may resort to an old cliché, and Waters did not understand this. Yes, under his guidance Dark Side and Wish You Were Here were created, but he allowed the others to composed. Hell, Animals had some good composition that wasn't scripted.
This is not to say I worship Gilmour either. I very much doubt that the others commenting do either, which is why the personal attacks don't make sense to me. Gilmour's Floyd albums are by no means perfect either. I love TDB, and I know that. So do the others posting in Gilmour's defence I reckon. I also enjoy TFC for what it is, but that doesn't mean it's not flawed.