Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
Jimi Dean Barrett
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Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Jimi Dean Barrett » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:05 pm

On a much less cooler forum, there was a thread about bands that had lost cred..
Although it took the second page, one poster nominated Pink Floyd as a band that lost cred. But have no examples.
So yeah, "Have Pink Floyd Lost Cred?".
First thing I thought was "Did the box sets bomb spectacularly?"but then I thought if the post Syd break ups.
Personally I feel Pink Floyd are rightly way up high to be undamagable.
But what about you? First thing you think of when you read "Pink Floyd are a band that has lost cred"?

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by snifferdog » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Interesting question. For me, Pink Floyd losing some cred would coincide with when Roger left the band. I don't dislike A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Division Bell but I'd be the first to agree that they're not as original or as good as what the band had done in the past. AMLOR is a David Gilmour solo album in all but name and it has a Pink Floyd by committee feel to it. And that's before you talk about the drum machines and the synths. In hindsight they should've not released any new material after The Division Bell. It's a better album than AMLOR but it's still mostly average, punctuated by moments of brilliance. At least it is a proper album. The Endless River, for all the spin that they put on it at the time, is a compilation of scraps from the studio floor packaged in a nice sleeve.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by azza200 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:35 pm

snifferdog wrote:Interesting question. For me, Pink Floyd losing some cred would coincide with when Roger left the band. I don't dislike A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Division Bell but I'd be the first to agree that they're not as original or as good as what the band had done in the past. AMLOR is a David Gilmour solo album in all but name and it has a Pink Floyd by committee feel to it. And that's before you talk about the drum machines and the synths. In hindsight they should've not released any new material after The Division Bell. It's a better album than AMLOR but it's still mostly average, punctuated by moments of brilliance. At least it is a proper album. The Endless River, for all the spin that they put on it at the time, is a compilation of scraps from the studio floor packaged in a nice sleeve.
The original plan was to include "The Endless River" album as an extra with 20th anniversary TDB releases but the record company decided to make it a separate album instead David & Nick had no influence in that decision. The Final Cut is a solo album just as much as AMLOR is a David solo album.

The Floyd did go off the radar after 1994 until around 1999 when Roger began touring again then 2001 David acoustic gigs then Live 8 happened since then its been a busy 13 years for both David & Roger touring along with studio & live releases from them both.

I don't think PF has lost cred i think they are as popular as ever Live 8 introduced a new generation of fans to the band

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Hadrian » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:24 pm

I have only one complaint about Pink Floyd.

This December it will be 33 years since Roger Waters left the band, and the final count of that whole period is mere 3 studio albums. I always felt that they could've given us more, and that going into retirement in late October 1994 (at the end of TDB tour, when Gilmour was only 48 years old) was simply premature. I think that they could've easily done 6 studio albums instead of just 3 for all those years. If Nick Mason had a larger say, it would be like that for sure.

Conceptually, The Endless River is the most interesting thing they did since Waters left (Metallic Spheres also, on the solo side). I also wish there was more of that.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Kerry King » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:54 am

Jimi Dean Barrett wrote:Although it took the second page, one poster nominated Pink Floyd as a band that lost cred. But have no examples.
So yeah, "Have Pink Floyd Lost Cred?".
This question was relevant 30 years ago.

Examples?
Waters lost cred when it was revealed that he was taking too much undeserved cred.
Gilmour lost cred when AMLOR was released.
Mason was great with Pink Floyd but he probably didn't have much cred to lose.
Wright was mercifully fired at exactly the right time so he never lost cred.
Barrett never lost cred.

Certainly nothing since 1987 could sink the pf cred any lower. Not until Waters began to lip sync, the label milked the back catalog for every drop, and Waters and Gilmour did the opposite of what the old, credible Pink Floyd used to do, they played mostly oldies. For decades.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Rooster1 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:53 am

Pink Floyd's reputation and credibility has rightfully been secured if we consider their cultural contribution to music (not just popular music). They will be remembered 100 years from now. In those terms they remain credible and their achievements are unlikely ever to be undone (unless some fact emerges and we find out their whole recorded output was a farce and each album was created by anonymous session musicians).

Below this high level view sit some of the comments people have put here; many of which are quite rightly based on personal opinion. What intrigues me about Floyd is the same thing that retains my interest in other legendary bands such as the Beach Boys. Many bands have created patchy albums and output which varies in quality, but for me that is what endears me to them and shows them to be human. It also illustrates the journey that they took. We all know it's not just the albums / tours which formed this journey, it was everything behind that they had to encounter and deal with in order to deliver the albums / tours. Having families, dealing with the loss of their main songwriter, record company problems, finances, press, interpersonal relationships etc.

That PF as an entity in all forms fought those pressures and survived such a long career is what needs to be remembered and celebrated. If you consider all that I doubt some lip syncing from Roger Waters or lazily created material from a rich middle class bloke (David) will be sufficient to damage their credibility. I'm not suggesting they are beyond criticism - but I don't think credibility will ever be an issue.

Not quite sure this can be extended to the record company controlled output however!

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by flashback » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:34 pm

it's all just a matter of an opinion,so I don't give a shit.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Kerry King » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:50 am

flashback wrote:it's all just a matter of an opinion,so I don't give a shit.
That's how I now feel about half of Waters lyrics.
Rooster1 wrote:Pink Floyd's reputation and credibility has rightfully been secured
There is no securing credibility. Ask Bill Cosby.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Rooster1 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:27 am

Rooster1 wrote:Pink Floyd's reputation and credibility has rightfully been secured
There is no securing credibility. Ask Bill Cosby.[/quote]

Hmm, you're correct and there is an exception. I hope however this forum doesn't ever have to get into that type of conversation.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Hadrian » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:03 pm

snifferdog wrote:For me, Pink Floyd losing some cred would coincide with when Roger left the band. I don't dislike A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Division Bell but I'd be the first to agree that they're not as original or as good as what the band had done in the past
A lot of folks share that impression but things would've been different had they actually focused on what their real strength, the music itself. For me, The Endless River is the most interesting thing they did after Waters left, precisely because it is almost completely instrumental (it would've been even better without that single song at the end).

I have Celemony's Melodyne at home, which allows me to play around with things in wonderful ways. Recently I extracted all the instrumentals from A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell, and sonically patched them together as two 'Sides', The Endless River style:

Side 1 (from A Momentary Lapse of Reason) - 11:43
1. Signs of Life - 04:24
2. Terminal Frost - 06:17
3. Round and Around - 01:02

Side 2 (from The Division Bell) - 11:25
1. Cluster One - 05:56
2. Marooned - 05:29

Now if this was pressed on vinyl you would get a wonderful 12" (45 rpm) release that could easily stand on its own, or even work as the third record in The Endless River set. It has a very moody and unique sound (Side 1 surprisingly even more than Side 2), and this would be a memorable and very awkward-to-classify record. They could've done interesting and surprising things like that, but instead they opted for records with songs which could only fall short in comparison to previous concept and narrative albums done with Waters. They should and could've found their niche better.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by flashback » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:28 am

Hadrian wrote:
snifferdog wrote:For me, Pink Floyd losing some cred would coincide with when Roger left the band. I don't dislike A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Division Bell but I'd be the first to agree that they're not as original or as good as what the band had done in the past
A lot of folks share that impression but things would've been different had they actually focused on what their real strength, the music itself. For me, The Endless River is the most interesting thing they did after Waters left, precisely because it is almost completely instrumental (it would've been even better without that single song at the end).

I have Celemony's Melodyne at home, which allows me to play around with things in wonderful ways. Recently I extracted all the instrumentals from A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell, and sonically patched them together as two 'Sides', The Endless River style:

Side 1 (from A Momentary Lapse of Reason) - 11:43
1. Signs of Life - 04:24
2. Terminal Frost - 06:17
3. Round and Around - 01:02

Side 2 (from The Division Bell) - 11:25
1. Cluster One - 05:56
2. Marooned - 05:29

Now if this was pressed on vinyl you would get a wonderful 12" (45 rpm) release that could easily stand on its own, or even work as the third record in The Endless River set. It has a very moody and unique sound (Side 1 surprisingly even more than Side 2), and this would be a memorable and very awkward-to-classify record. They could've done interesting and surprising things like that, but instead they opted for records with songs which could only fall short in comparison to previous concept and narrative albums done with Waters. They should and could've found their niche better.
For me PF has always been about the music first and words 2nd.I like music that lets my mind go where it wants not being lead by the words.PF has always been greater than the sum of it's parts but sadly the band members lost that idea(or never saw it) along the way.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Hadrian » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:47 pm

When I think about David, Rick and Nick together (or even just David and Nick, or David and Rick for those barn sessions etc.), I think about the instrumental parts of "Shine On". They should've focused on that kind of thing, let that aspect fully shine after 1985 \:D/.

Concepts and narratives are Roger Waters. You still get that on his solo albums after 1985, but with music sucked out of the equation and all of it becoming highly daily-political (instead of universal and timeless, like it was on The Dark Side).

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Vlad The Impaler » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:03 am

When I fell in love with the Floyd it was before Roger's lyrical dominance. The words were decent, sometimes good but not stellar. When he came into his own lyrically I simply thought...icing on the cake. When he started to lyrically dominate over the music I started to think the cake had been left out to go stale. Did they lose cred? Debatable. There will be no universal agreement on that topic. I will only say that, quality aside, from the Wall on it was not really the Floyd I fell in love with. There was a brief respite with Division Bell musically and a returning to decent but not stellar lyrics yet still not the Floyd I really treasured in my heart. Overall...they still fared better than a lot of artists career-wise...and cred-wise. Still love them.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Rooster1 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:52 am

Interesting discussion to think if their credibility would have been raised (post Waters onwards) should they have pursued their musical strengths in instrumentals; particularly with a focus on experimental ambient recording. A barn session approach to lay down base material, then take it into a studio to overdub and play with samples and sound effects. Almost taking them back to their playful origins and just take risks sonically. In essence this is what they did with TER but with a more focus and cohesion.

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Re: Pink Floyd Has Lost Cred?

Post by Jimi Dean Barrett » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:21 pm

Plus if Nick Mason's tours get more successful then surely a lot of cred can be gained back before the aspic preserved of posthumous acclaim?