"Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

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"Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by DarkSideFreak »

:(

Why did it take so many years for me to notice?

Of course there are differences, but compare the overall feel, the vocal melodies, and especially the way the guitar solo is placed in the song over the "fast" section. They're very much cut from the same cloth. :shock:
Last edited by DarkSideFreak on Sat May 01, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by The Gunner's Dream »

I don't think they're all that similar. They're both slow paced songs in minor keys in 4/4 time with guitar solos in the middle. That describes thousands of songs.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

I dunno they feel very different to me. "Yet Another Movie" feels desolate in tone, whereas "Keep Talking" is almost desperate. The structure you listed is correct, they are similar in that respect, but they're not the only Pink Floyd songs that fit into it - "Your Possible Pasts" for example.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by DarkSideFreak »

YPP does not have a tempo doubling under the guitar solo and a melody that's very centered around the tonic.

Maybe it's the 2019 remix of DSOT that's throwing me a curveball (it has the sequences higher in the mix, which certainly strengthens the impression, given how much Keep Talking is built around a sequence) but there was one moment where I was really confused for a second. And I started to wonder.

For the record, I remember the German prog reviewer Nik Brückner stating that TDB is generally a reprise of AMLOR, but I never really agreed with that until I had this strange epiphany today. (He equated WDYWFM with The Dogs of War, and AGDFF with On The Turning Away, but didn't continue until Keep Talking / Yet Another Movie...)
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:26 pm He equated WDYWFM with The Dogs of War, and AGDFF with On The Turning Away
Well those seem blatantly unfair comparisons to me, especially the first one. "What Do You Want From Me" isn't a bit like "The Dogs of War".
And while the backbone of both tracks are sequences, granted, this feels like a general sort of adaptation Pink Floyd were making with the new technology available to them.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by DarkSideFreak »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:39 pm Well those seem blatantly unfair comparisons to me, especially the first one. "What Do You Want From Me" isn't a bit like "The Dogs of War".
I guess in the sense that both are somewhat blues-based but then again, David is a blues guitarist, so one would expect him to tackle this form of music (see also "This Heaven", which, incidentally, The Pink Floyd Rough Guide called a re-run of "The Dogs of War" 8-[ but the live ending shows a distant relationship).

In the case of "A Great Day for Freedom" and "On the Turning Away", it's a lyrical thing, and you could extend that to "Take It Back" and "One Slip". Curiously, looking at "One Slip" in the light of "Take It Back" underlines that AMLOR does have a theme of sorts: "Take It Back" sounds like a relationship song but is very much about the relationship to Mother Earth. "One Slip" rarely gets interpreted as such but can take on all kinds of additional lyrical layers that fit the Cold War theme of AMLOR.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:23 pm "One Slip" rarely gets interpreted as such but can take on all kinds of additional lyrical layers that fit the Cold War theme of AMLOR.
I'm really curious what you mean here. The only AMLoR track that has any Cold War vibes to me is "The Dogs of War", and maybe "Sorrow" if you interpret it as a post-nuclear beat. And "One Slip" is about a one night stand that ended in a pregnancy, isn't it?
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:23 pm "One Slip" rarely gets interpreted as such but can take on all kinds of additional lyrical layers that fit the Cold War theme of AMLOR.
theaussiefloydian wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:46 pm I'm really curious what you mean here. The only AMLoR track that has any Cold War vibes to me is "The Dogs of War", and maybe "Sorrow" if you interpret it as a post-nuclear beat.
I wouldn't even say that "Dogs of War" (or Radio KAOS is Cold War-related, as both David and Roger have mentioned Oliver North by name in interviews - the U.S. was selling missiles to paramilitary groups within enemy countries, and that bothered them more than some long-standing tensions with Russia. It'd be like arming the IRA just because they had the money.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by DarkSideFreak »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:46 pm
DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:23 pm "One Slip" rarely gets interpreted as such but can take on all kinds of additional lyrical layers that fit the Cold War theme of AMLOR.
I'm really curious what you mean here. The only AMLoR track that has any Cold War vibes to me is "The Dogs of War", and maybe "Sorrow" if you interpret it as a post-nuclear beat. And "One Slip" is about a one night stand that ended in a pregnancy, isn't it?
It's a long and somewhat convoluted train thought that originally started on APFFN as a discussion about the meaning of "Terminal Frost". Some people interpreted the track as nuclear winter, which fits in with the imagery of "Sorrow". Essentially, the idea was that the whole album can be interpreted as a veiled story of Cold War shenanigans leading to nuclear holocaust - which is ironically a topic that Roger had tackled on the previous album. It seemed to work well with the spoken vocals peppered throughout the album. "When the childlike view of the world went, nothing replaced it" is the first spoken line (loss of innocence), leading into "Learning to Fly" which metaphorically can be interpreted as humanity finding its feet, including positive and negative technological developments. In that sense, "One Slip" works as a meditation on human fallibility in general. "Yet Another Movie" is the hardest song to interpret from that angle although the fact that "Casablanca" is set in WWII gives some hints. The same goes for David's guitar spelling out "she's had enough" (from Yet Another Movie) during "Terminal Frost" at the 4:47 mark, and the prominence of "one [world]" as a lyrical motif ("One world, it's a battleground", "one slip", "just a world that we all must share", "one sound, one single sound", "one thing which will bring me here, never again, never again", "One world, one soul"), which is also echoed on the cover... loads and loads of beds but just one man on the cover.

Of course, you can probably take a couple of lines out of context in each song and support any narrative if you choose cleverly (see The Beatles) but to me, those hints are a bit too many. It's sort of like the precursor to the Publius Enigma, if you like. The lyrical and musical devices employed to tie AMLOR together are pretty much the same as on TDB, and that has always been called a themed album.
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Re: "Keep Talking" is "Yet Another Movie"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:58 pm The lyrical and musical devices employed to tie AMLOR together are pretty much the same as on TDB, and that has always been called a themed album.
True, but from memory Pink Floyd actually ended up saying that The Division Bell is a themed album themselves. Furthermore the theme of communication always felt a little more obvious on that album - so many of the songs reference speaking for example.
The fact that Gilmour's never explicitly stated there's a theme behind Momentary Lapse of Reason is a bit of a wrench for me, but you definitely provide some compelling evidence, especially when I consider "A New Machine", which oddly reminds me of that Harlan Ellison novella "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" - the narrator of "A New Machine" sounds to me a bit like AM the sentient supercomputer that caused the nuclear apocalypse. I do have to wonder though if the themes were intentional - it's not unheard of to me of writers creating thematic through lines in their work without consciously realising it - but I'm still not totally sold on the interpretation of "One Slip".
(Also I saw "Yet Another Movie" as a song about a movie star who's old, dying and decides his life has been completely pointless, but that could be my somewhat tragic tendency to literal thinking shooting me in the foot there.)
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"Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by DarkSideFreak »

Quoting into this thread because it feels more appropriate:
mosespa wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:53 am
DarkSideFreak wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:07 pm If TDB is a concept album, then AMLOR is too - over on APFFN (when it still existed) we went into the different levels of the lyrics on that one. Although it's not stated outright, pretty much every song fits together to create a narrative of, basically, nuclear holocaust (ironic considering that this was already something Roger was on about too).
I'm going to have to disagree with this assessment. "One Slip" is about a regretted one-night stand, "Learning To Fly" while rather ambiguous is definitely about overcoming boundaries. "On The Turning Away" is about the need for compassion.

Gilmour and Ezrin both have said that attempts to find a concept ended in failure and that the closest they could come was to make the river Thames (where they were recording) a "theme" for the album, which is why it begins with the sounds of a boat being rowed.

I don't listen to "Side 2" of the album often, but my memory of it is that the only songs that could really be said to be about nuclear holocaust are the instrumental ones.
It's a different type of concept compared to Roger's (and the same goes for The Division Bell). Songs that, taken on their own, have a different meaning, but can be interpreted to be obliquely referring to a greater theme. I've never bought the river being much of a subject - it only appears twice on the entire album, whereas the political situation appears in almost every song if you look for it. "Yet Another Movie", for example, samples Casablanca, and the dialogue references concentration camps - then you have Nick saying "Never again" later in "Terminal Frost", a line that's often used when commemorating the horrors of Nazi Germany. That's very much flipping the hopeful message of "On the Turning Away" on its head, right as you flip over the cassette or LP.
theaussiefloydian wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:12 pm
DarkSideFreak wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:58 pm The lyrical and musical devices employed to tie AMLOR together are pretty much the same as on TDB, and that has always been called a themed album.
True, but from memory Pink Floyd actually ended up saying that The Division Bell is a themed album themselves. Furthermore the theme of communication always felt a little more obvious on that album - so many of the songs reference speaking for example.
The fact that Gilmour's never explicitly stated there's a theme behind Momentary Lapse of Reason is a bit of a wrench for me, but you definitely provide some compelling evidence, especially when I consider "A New Machine", which oddly reminds me of that Harlan Ellison novella "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" - the narrator of "A New Machine" sounds to me a bit like AM the sentient supercomputer that caused the nuclear apocalypse. I do have to wonder though if the themes were intentional - it's not unheard of to me of writers creating thematic through lines in their work without consciously realising it - but I'm still not totally sold on the interpretation of "One Slip".
(Also I saw "Yet Another Movie" as a song about a movie star who's old, dying and decides his life has been completely pointless, but that could be my somewhat tragic tendency to literal thinking shooting me in the foot there.)
I like your interpretation of "A New Machine"! :smt045

As for The Division Bell, I remember looking at a website about the "Enigma" (not sure if it still exists) that made the statement that communication is just the most obvious face of the album's themes. Because when you look at it, there are several lyrics that don't really have much to do with communication - mainly "Take It Back" and "High Hopes". Then, there are curious little hooks like the phrase "The rain fell slow" - this appears in "Poles Apart" as well as in "Coming Back to Life", and since David wrote the latter on his own, it must be intentional. I think there was another of these that slips my mind right now.
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Re: "Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by mosespa »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:41 am
It's a different type of concept compared to Roger's (and the same goes for The Division Bell). Songs that, taken on their own, have a different meaning, but can be interpreted to be obliquely referring to a greater theme. I've never bought the river being much of a subject - it only appears twice on the entire album, whereas the political situation appears in almost every song if you look for it. "Yet Another Movie", for example, samples Casablanca, and the dialogue references concentration camps - then you have Nick saying "Never again" later in "Terminal Frost", a line that's often used when commemorating the horrors of Nazi Germany. That's very much flipping the hopeful message of "On the Turning Away" on its head, right as you flip over the cassette or LP.
There is only one type of concept album: An album with a concept through every song.

In regards to your interpretation of AMLOR, all I have to say is that you can make anything mean anything you want it to if you do enough mental gymnastics.

This is why I always say that people are welcome to their opinions, but opinions can still be wrong.

I remember someone once saying that their interpretation of The Wall was that we all live like Italians.

That person was wrong. That's not what the album is about.

But...if you twist it enough, you can make it mean that, I guess.

I've never been into subjectivity...because it can be and often is incorrect. By definition.

But hey, don't let me step on your buzz. One cannot make another person be right. *shrug*
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Re: "Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

mosespa wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:53 am
"One Slip" is about a regretted one-night stand, "Learning To Fly" while rather ambiguous is definitely about overcoming boundaries. "On The Turning Away" is about the need for compassion.

Gilmour and Ezrin both have said that attempts to find a concept ended in failure and that the closest they could come was to make the river Thames (where they were recording) a "theme" for the album, which is why it begins with the sounds of a boat being rowed.

I don't listen to "Side 2" of the album often, but my memory of it is that the only songs that could really be said to be about nuclear holocaust are the instrumental ones.
I concur, though "Learning to Fly" is probably a little more literal as if I remember right Gilmour mentioned he was taking flying lessons around the time much of the album was being written.
And honestly I've always interpreted "Sorrow" as being pretty apocalyptic. It's probably not truly about that though - the desolate wastelands described in the song are probably a metaphor (given the time, probably for the disintegrated relationships in Pink Floyd). And as mentioned in my interpretation of "A New Machine", if you're inclined to the works of Harlan Ellison you might pick up a possible connection to nuclear war there. But the whole album being a concept album about nuclear war feels a little like a stretch.
DarkSideFreak wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:41 am It's a different type of concept compared to Roger's (and the same goes for The Division Bell). Songs that, taken on their own, have a different meaning, but can be interpreted to be obliquely referring to a greater theme. I've never bought the river being much of a subject - it only appears twice on the entire album, whereas the political situation appears in almost every song if you look for it. "Yet Another Movie", for example, samples Casablanca, and the dialogue references concentration camps - then you have Nick saying "Never again" later in "Terminal Frost", a line that's often used when commemorating the horrors of Nazi Germany. That's very much flipping the hopeful message of "On the Turning Away" on its head, right as you flip over the cassette or LP.
Much as I can see where you're coming from, much of this also seems incidental to me. I've already established that my interpretation of "Yet Another Movie" could be fatally literal, but I always imagined that the Casablanca sample was simply a reference to silver age film, when the film star of (my interpretation of) the song would have been in their heyday.
This might also be a quibbling point, but I don't think "On the Turning Away" is quite as hopeful as most think it is - the last line "is it only a dream that there'll be no more turning away" feels like the narrator isn't completely convinced that humanity can turn around for the better. But I've been known to be a cynical type on occasion so that could also be me reading into things.
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Re: "Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by Gslatner »

I think the idea that a “concept album” is better than a collection of good songs is seriously flawed. I have zero connection to The Final Cut therefore it’s only an occasional listen for me. I’d rather listen to More or Obscured by Clouds because I don’t feel like I’m being forced to buy into the theme that means nothing to me.

I would contest Roger has shot himself in the foot by focusing on shit concepts instead of making good music first.
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Re: "Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

Post by theaussiefloydian »

Gslatner wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:31 pm I would contest Roger has shot himself in the foot by focusing on shit concepts instead of making good music first.
You won't find too many arguments for me, though I personally might remove the pejorative from the concepts. I actually like the general concept of, say, Amused to Death, but you're right in the sense that most of the album musically doesn't have much to go on.