ZiggyZipgun wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:53 am
Also, the "post-war dream" was the hope that following World War II, countries would work together to diplomatically resolve conflicts rather than resorting to military action. It's why the United Nations was established. The UN had specifically mandated de-colonization to avoid territorial disputes like this. The fact that 255 Englishmen died to keep a cluster of islands near Antarctica under British authority was fairly offensive to those who believed that their loved ones died in World War II so that this would never happen again. World War I was similarly viewed as "the war to end all wars" but was ultimately responsible for World War II and just about every other military conflict that's occurred since.
This is, in a roundabout way, kind of what I was getting at. The Final Cut is using the Falklands as a focal point to ask what happened to the post war dream. One other reference to WWII makes this plain in the song "The Post-War Dream" - "was it for this that Daddy died?" While the references to the Falklands contemporize the album, it's still about the general cycle of war and the half hearted follow up of "never again" from the respective governments. I don't think much of the album as a whole, but it's definitely thematically consistent.
It being thematically consistent is what gives it the nod for me.
And Lapse...well...like many other albums written by the not quite so primary songwriter... has some great ideas, but it lacks a strong finishes in many of the tracks.
battra wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:45 pm
It being thematically consistent is what gives it the nod for me.
And Lapse...well...like many other albums written by the not quite so primary songwriter... has some great ideas, but it lacks a strong finishes in many of the tracks.
Fair enough. I guess for my criteria it just comes down to what I enjoy listening to more, and Lapse, for all its flaws, is a far less dreary listen than The Final Cut.
Not that either of you asked, but for me, AMLOR is the more dreary listen, if only due to it's...preponderance of atmosphere?
For me, listening to The Final Cut is like viewing a film in 4K resolution; crisp and clear. Whereas, AMLOR is like watching a student film and the student didn't really set the focus on the lens first.
Now, having said that, the boxed set remix of AMLOR goes a long way towards getting rid of a lot of the stuff I find most objectionable. But it also kind of sounds like it was done in a rush, to me.
mosespa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:48 pm
For me, listening to The Final Cut is like viewing a film in 4K resolution; crisp and clear. Whereas, AMLOR is like watching a student film and the student didn't really set the focus on the lens first.
That's an interesting metaphor, but at the same time I think I know exactly what you mean. The Final Cut is for sure the better engineered album, I don't think there could possibly be any argument on that point.
mosespa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:48 pm
Now, having said that, the boxed set remix of AMLOR goes a long way towards getting rid of a lot of the stuff I find most objectionable. But it also kind of sounds like it was done in a rush, to me.
This is a sentiment I mostly subscribe to. I don't think I've listened to the 1987 mix since the box set was put on Spotify, save for the occasional spin of the 2017 vinyl re-release. However I'm not quite sure I hear the rushed aspect - maybe the mixing levels on one or two of the tracks seem a little sloppy on occasion? I'd have to have it playing as I type to really pull it apart.
battra wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:45 pm
It being thematically consistent is what gives it the nod for me.
And Lapse...well...like many other albums written by the not quite so primary songwriter... has some great ideas, but it lacks a strong finishes in many of the tracks.
Fair enough. I guess for my criteria it just comes down to what I enjoy listening to more, and Lapse, for all its flaws, is a far less dreary listen than The Final Cut.
I enjoy Final Cut more than Lapse too though.
Dreary though it is...but I like that. I'm also the guy rooting for a thunderstorm in July.
mosespa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:48 pm
Not that either of you asked, but for me, AMLOR is the more dreary listen, if only due to it's...preponderance of atmosphere?
For me, listening to The Final Cut is like viewing a film in 4K resolution; crisp and clear. Whereas, AMLOR is like watching a student film and the student didn't really set the focus on the lens first.
Now, having said that, the boxed set remix of AMLOR goes a long way towards getting rid of a lot of the stuff I find most objectionable. But it also kind of sounds like it was done in a rush, to me.
We're never all going to be happy, are we? lol
Have you ever heard The Seventh Star by Black Sabbath FEATURING Tony Iommi?
It was the first Black Sabbath album w/o any other original members.
Great ideas, but not none of them were really FINISHED.
It seems like your description fits both of these records so, so well.
Why do some people say stuff like this "they shouldn't of played brick p2 on that tour i.e 1994" comments like that baffle me. Why shouldnt post waters floyd not play it? It's Pink Floyd's biggest commercial hit single they have every right too play it along with Wish You Were Here & Money they are Pink Floyd's biggest hits which non fans know. Also when people say they are Roger's song's not those songs but others. So even though David, Rick, Nick played on the song from the basic idea and shared their musical inputs into those songs they should not play it because Roger quit such a facepalm thing to say it makes no sense.
Its either gate keeping cause of Roger and being part of The Wall narrative. I just find comments like that in the fandom odd.
azza200 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:42 pm
Why do some people say stuff like this "they shouldn't of played brick p2 on that tour i.e 1994" comments like that baffle me. Why shouldnt post waters floyd not play it? It's Pink Floyd's biggest commercial hit single they have every right too play it along with Wish You Were Here & Money they are Pink Floyd's biggest hits which non fans know. Also when people say they are Roger's song's not those songs but others. So even though David, Rick, Nick played on the song from the basic idea and shared their musical inputs into those songs they should not play it because Roger quit such a facepalm thing to say it makes no sense.
Its either gate keeping cause of Roger and being part of The Wall narrative. I just find comments like that in the fandom odd.
Did you mean to post that in this thread? Doesn't seem particularly relevant.
azza200 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:42 pm
Its either gate keeping cause of Roger and being part of The Wall narrative. I just find comments like that in the fandom odd.
Roger himself has complained that they would play any of those songs out of context, but he's been kept afloat by having those songs playing on the radio over and over for 40 years. It is hilarious that fans used the "request line" during the KAOS shows to complain that he wasn't playing "Comfortably Numb", which he promised to do on his next tour...12 goddamn years later!
Surprisingly difficult comparison as I love both of them, one represents the end of an era and the other the start of another.
In the end I voted for AMLoR as its a really important album in the bands history and represents the re-boot and foundation for some great tours and follow up material. Hard to imagine a world where it stopped at The Final Cut.
ZiggyZipgun wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:31 am
Musically...who the hell was this written for? Was this some aristocratic chamber rock overture to butter up his second wife before unveiling his adulterous fever-dream song-cycle?
This is my problem with TFC in a nutshell - and we touched on this in another thread.
I don't believe music should really be written with a specific audience in mind. But TFC is the first PF album that had virtually no connection to what was going on at the time. It totally eschews innovation. There is some of that brass band thing that Roger is so fond of - but that I doubt a lot of PF fans were hot about. There are songs that could be straight out of John Lennon's first couple of solo albums. The few more upbeat bits are not a progression from the rock tracks on The Wall.
The album is what you get when the one guy who would go on record as saying "I'm not interested in playing instruments" gets to define the entire creative direction.
ZiggyZipgun wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:40 pm
"A New Machine" (both parts) are the highlight of the album, for me, followed by "Signs of Life" and "Sorrow", since thry all take the same melody and use it in very different ways - and not unconsciously or for a lack of ideas, like "Wait for Her" using "Have a Cigar".
I'm not sure I'd entirely go along with that. I know (and love) AMLOR for years but never considered a real musical continuity between those tracks you mentioned. Now that you say it, I can hear a bit in "Signs of Life" that - slowed down and played a lot deeper - becomes the "Sorrow" intro, but I'm still struggling to connect that with "A New Machine". To me it feels more like an accidental concept (just like the lyrical one). That said, "On The Turning Away" landing on that same drawn-out E minor chord in the middle that underpins the second half of "Signs of Life" is maybe a more obvious link.
