New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by Flathead » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:49 pm

kjek1 wrote:
I don't get the challenging themselves bit personally. I don't really want them to change their styles just to move with the times. I like Floyd for their own unique sound, if they wanted to keep spinning that forever then that suits me fine. I don't want them changing it just because some critic who may or may not even have any musical abilities or training himself thinks they should mix it up.

It is essential, absolutely essential for any artist to listen to the latest music, read the newest book from newer authors, or enjoy sculptures or paintings from the latest painters. You cannot, no matter how talented, continue at a high level if you do not do this. the creative mind requires stimulation.

For example, Waters' biggest influence was Dylan. Specifically, Sad Eye Lady of the Lowlands blew his mind and influenced him into thinking that really long songs were okay as long as they continued to enthrall. But it doesn't just stop at Dylan. It has to keep going. Maybe Waters or Gilmour hears an underground ambient artist they love and nik a little bit, or are inspired to try something new within the context of the Pink floyd sound.

It's not about Pink Floyd totally changing their sound, it's about Pink Floyd as H.P. Lovecraft's Shoggoth, absorbing everything it touches and becoming even more potent and amazing.

It applies to music, writing, art, whatever. Show me a writer who doesn't read other writers on a regular basis, and I'll show you a bad writer. Show me an older rock act that doesn't listen to newer bands, and I'll show you an album that is dull and full of late 80's early 90's studio production.

You can't just own 100 CD's of classic rock acts and expect to be an educated music listener. Nor can you be an educated musician if you do the same thing.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by Flathead » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:54 pm

raisemyrent wrote:I sustain that the division bell is a great album with amazing music in it. If you don't like it, then you were listening for something in Pink Floyd that's hopefully satisfied by the repetitive stuff Waters is stuck in. But I am beginning to think I should thank him for doing all he did because it gave us an evolved PF in TDB and perhaps soon TER.

I agree Waters got stuck "inside the wall". However, Gilmour is stuck in his own way, with predictable guitar solos in almost every song,
and rather generic synth pads to kick off many of the songs.

Kott an DeRogatis were spot on with the sax comment.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by hypermikem » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:39 am

Now that is a truly interesting take on David Gilmour. Predictable? It's called a trademark unique sound. All the great guitarists have it. That's the first time I have ever heard anyone describe DG as predictable. Just wow. Explains a lot. Really it does. Many many people love Pink Floyd predominantly because of that guitar playing and IMO is the only reason why The Wall is even listenable on 80% of it. Pink Floyd would have never ever achieved the success it did without Gilmour's predictable playing. Ah the narrative becomes crystal clear. Now that is an interesting thing to say. Not for its truth and merit but because it's a ridiculous statement.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by Flathead » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:00 am

Yeah, you didn't quite get what I was saying. Gilmour became predictable after The Wall, not before. It started with About Face.


In the past, his solos burst from the song. Now, you can see them coming from a mile away. And yes, guitar solos are no less vulnerable to complacency, dullness, and repetition as other aspects of song composition are.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by bboynexus » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:03 am

Much of the music is 20 years old. I can't quite comprehend why anyone would expect all of it to sound particularly modern or innovative. Neither David or Nick have suggested that it would. They've made it very clear that the music is derived from sessions in the early 90's. You can certainly argue that David Gilmour has become almost too comfortable with his musical palette, and perhaps you could use that as a basis for criticism if he were producing something genuinely new, but in this case it just seems excessively pedantic and petty.

This all comes down to incongruent fan expectations. And, in Flathead/Wyoming's case, a deliberate attempt to stir people up on this forum. His previous responses to hypermikem make that abundantly clear.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by mastaflatch » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:38 am

Flathead wrote:Yeah, you didn't quite get what I was saying. Gilmour became predictable after The Wall, not before. It started with About Face.


In the past, his solos burst from the song. Now, you can see them coming from a mile away. And yes, guitar solos are no less vulnerable to complacency, dullness, and repetition as other aspects of song composition are.
I gotta say that I partially agree with this. Although I'd say that he became predictable because of the over-abundance of guitar solos much like present-day Waters often seem to drown a good idea in verbiage. What made the three solos on TFC so good is precisely this: there was only three of them. When the drum roll on Fletcher Memorial Home arrives, it's a massive emotional release that's fed from the subject matter and feeds back something "louder than words" into the song while at the third solo on Coming Back to Life, the already thin emotional heart of the song has already been sucked dry.

Having said that, Gilmour's guitar is still a powerful vehicle that speaks to me \:D/ more than most musicians - OAI's (the song) lead work is absolutely excellent for instance.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by hypermikem » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:50 am

Oh yes. Gilmour's guitar indeed sings. Speaks directly to the soul. Like the solo on "A great day for Freedom", Also "Fat old Sun" or "Mother". There frankly no other sound quite like it. I also happen to like the cheesy generic chord progressions of the Pink Floyd key boards. It's interesting that the very things this band is being knocked for are some of the very things that many Floydians hold dear. I'm glad they didn't sell out and "roll with the times". It would have fundamentally changed what PF is all about IMO.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by Flathead » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:09 am

bboynexus wrote:Much of the music is 20 years old. I can't quite comprehend why anyone would expect all of it to sound particularly modern or innovative.
See, the thing is, The Division Bell production sounds far superior, and it was made at the same time. Say what you want about the songwriting quality, but it sounds good.

This all comes down to incongruent fan expectations. And, in Flathead/Wyoming's case, a deliberate attempt to stir people up on this forum. His previous responses to hypermikem make that abundantly clear.
Hmmm....so you're going to blame fan expectations rather than the people who released the album? As far as the other stuff, I have no interest, but I would ask you to refrain from trying to forcefully change my opinion, and instead discuss the album like an adult.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by Flathead » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 am

hypermikem wrote:Oh yes. Gilmour's guitar indeed sings. Speaks directly to the soul. Like the solo on "A great day for Freedom", Also "Fat old Sun" or "Mother".
I agree with you on Mother and Fat Old Sun, but A Great Day For Freedom fits what I mentioned before. The song sounds tired, the synth pad intro is a tad generic and dull, and the solo is completely telegraphed and plodding. To me, it is everything that Pink Floyd is not.

There frankly no other sound quite like it. I also happen to like the cheesy generic chord progressions of the Pink Floyd key boards. It's interesting that the very things this band is being knocked for are some of the very things that many Floydians hold dear. I'm glad they didn't sell out and "roll with the times". It would have fundamentally changed what PF is all about IMO.

Pink Floyd have always evolved, from Piper to The Wall. indeed, they "rolled with the times", even using disco on their biggest hit single (Another Brick). You couldn't find two more different sounding albums. But for whatever reason, after The Wall, everything just imploded. Waters got lost in making the Wall over and over, gave up listening to new music (admittedly) and Gilmour just got way too comfortable and produced lifeless music except for a few key tracks.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by bboynexus » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:21 am

Flathead wrote:Hmmm....so you're going to blame fan expectations rather than the people who released the album? As far as the other stuff, I have no interest, but I would ask you to refrain from trying to forcefully change my opinion, and instead discuss the album like an adult.
I was not, in fact, aware that I was trying to change your opinion.

No, I do not think I was.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by raisemyrent » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:03 am

Flathead. Agreed on the sax. But that was a David gilmour album. As far as I'm concerned he can do whatever he wants under his own name. Let's wait and see what the new Pink Floyd brings. I don't expect a guitar revolution. To me, he exploded new ground last on Marooned with the simplest piece of gear. He's a good all around guy that plays slide etc so I'm happy. But agreed he's not at the cuttif edge of guitar. Also agreed that no amount of extended solo can fix a bad song like a great day for freedom. I always call that an excuse for a guitar solo, and a boring one at that. The gdansk version seems to be the least bad and even gilmour playing at the top of his speed can't polish it enough. Reminds me of on an island kind of. Beautifully produced mediocre songs. I mean gdansk was how many musicians. I for one think that the on an island title song solo is boring and predictable. But I love coming back to life, however cheesy.
All of thag said, my expectations inspired guitar solos. Not generic routine going through the motion solos. To me, that is the Hard work he could put into TER. Think Hey You vs Fletcher Memorial.

Oh, I find pink Floyd chord progressions to be anything but generic. Cheese is subjective, but not generic. At least the Wright influenced stuff. For generic, try the tide is turning.

Last but not least, does anyone head a bit of The Blue in Anisina? It has a bit of the feeling on rocking on a boat. The blue is about the ocean and Anisina is in Turkish which might be a reference in memory to Richard Wright sailing around the Mediterranean. It also ties into what Hudini said about gilmour writing the song on piano like he did with the blue. Sorry about the silly typos but I'm on my phone.

Edit ps. Agreed bands as artists or even entertainers that want to sell have to evolve or die. Some evolve for good or some for bad and a bit depending on whom you ask too. It's going to be interesting to see new work over old material, though for the floyd mid 90s is new. Funny how they are bringing out an album based on 20yr old stuff yet Waters manages to outdo them touring one that's 30 years old lol not a jab just a sign they're all old man but hey we could be rolling stones or queen or kiss fans.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by The Gunner's Dream » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:24 am

raisemyrent wrote: Think Hey You vs Fletcher Memorial.
Actually I think the solos Gilmour did on "The Final Cut" are among the best he's ever done. He sounds pissed off, and it really comes through in his playing, particularly on "Fletcher memorial home" and "Your possible pasts". Rarely has he played as intensely as on that album.

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by mastaflatch » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:38 am

I forgot about Your Possible Pasts' solo. I sounds very vinegar indeed.
His tone on this album is also unique (and fuckin' powerful if you ask me).

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by raisemyrent » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:46 am

I listened to it and I agree!

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Re: New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

Post by lurkingfear » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:25 pm

Flathead wrote:
kjek1 wrote:
I don't get the challenging themselves bit personally. I don't really want them to change their styles just to move with the times. I like Floyd for their own unique sound, if they wanted to keep spinning that forever then that suits me fine. I don't want them changing it just because some critic who may or may not even have any musical abilities or training himself thinks they should mix it up.

It is essential, absolutely essential for any artist to listen to the latest music, read the newest book from newer authors, or enjoy sculptures or paintings from the latest painters. You cannot, no matter how talented, continue at a high level if you do not do this. the creative mind requires stimulation.

For example, Waters' biggest influence was Dylan. Specifically, Sad Eye Lady of the Lowlands blew his mind and influenced him into thinking that really long songs were okay as long as they continued to enthrall. But it doesn't just stop at Dylan. It has to keep going. Maybe Waters or Gilmour hears an underground ambient artist they love and nik a little bit, or are inspired to try something new within the context of the Pink floyd sound.

It's not about Pink Floyd totally changing their sound, it's about Pink Floyd as H.P. Lovecraft's Shoggoth, absorbing everything it touches and becoming even more potent and amazing.

It applies to music, writing, art, whatever. Show me a writer who doesn't read other writers on a regular basis, and I'll show you a bad writer. Show me an older rock act that doesn't listen to newer bands, and I'll show you an album that is dull and full of late 80's early 90's studio production.

You can't just own 100 CD's of classic rock acts and expect to be an educated music listener. Nor can you be an educated musician if you do the same thing.

Bullshit; many artists only develop their own unique style or sound by purposefully turning away from seeing or hearing others. Until that point their work often is derivative of others. But also Pink Floyd doesn't need to be innovative. They made their fortune and have a healthy stream of royalties that will continue long after the final members death. Pining about being cutting edge is simply an excuse to bitch.