Pink Floyd - The early years 1965-1972 box set

[Hadrian]

Isnt the rumour that Nick Mason is one of the drivers of this project? I could see the copywrite situation being used by him or others as a motivator for Waters and perhaps Gilmour to sign off on it. I would add as well that if a lot of this material started to come out legally from non Floyd sources that would obviously limit the demand for an official boxset and so might mean we never get to see it given a (hopefully) top quality mastering job.

Personally I would say that I think this material is well suited to such a release. Granted were all big fans of the band but I think you could argue that bar perhaps some of the Barrett era material and the Man/Journey show theres not really anything here that by itself is going to attract a great deal of attension outside of hardcore Floyd fans if released by itself. This big release on the other hand has that extra sense of purpose to it in that it tracks the evolution of the band over this era.

(with an apology for a belated reply):

Nick Mason is my favourite band member (the fact that there are now only two remaining band members notwithstanding), I have to admit that. He is essentially "the last man in Pink Floyd" at this point, and he might very well be the only person who has sincerely been in Pink Floyd for the last 20 years. If he had more clout in Pink Floyd, if he could have his way, we would've had more of everything during the 1996-2016 period. There would've been more live performances (The Endless River Tour for sure, but also various one-off festival performances both before and after, and other things like Pink Floyd performing at the London Olympics), there would've been more revisited releases (he wanted to redo his drumming on A Momentary Lapse of Reason, for example), there would've been more strange projects (for example, at the end of his book he talks about the idea of reworking some of the old material for an unplugged album - David did some of it on his live videos, acoustic Shine On with Dick Parry, and a slice of acoustic Echoes), and finally - there would've been more new records. If he only had the ability to compose music and/or write songs, there would've been another Pink Floyd album even in this two-man band configuration with David, I have no doubt.

[MoreOrLess]

Nick Mason is my favourite band member (the fact that there are now only two remaining band members notwithstanding), I have to admit that. He is essentially "the last man in Pink Floyd" at this point, and he might very well be the only person who has sincerely been in Pink Floyd for the last 20 years. If he had more clout in Pink Floyd, if he could have his way, we would've had more of everything during the 1996-2016 period. There would've been more live performances (The Endless River Tour for sure, but also various one-off festival performances both before and after, and other things like Pink Floyd performing at the London Olympics), there would've been more revisited releases (he wanted to redo his drumming on A Momentary Lapse of Reason, for example), there would've been more strange projects (for example, at the end of his book he talks about the idea of reworking some of the old material for an unplugged album - David did some of it on his live videos, acoustic Shine On with Dick Parry, and a slice of acoustic Echoes), and finally - there would've been more new records. If he only had the ability to compose music and/or write songs, there would've been another Pink Floyd album even in this two-man band configuration with David, I have no doubt.

I can imagine part of the problem is that the Gilmour and Waters likely have very different ideas about where the focus of any of these things should actually be. For example Is There Anybody Out There seemed like a really strange release to me, nothing wrong with it of course but really was the world crying out for a fairly standard run though of The Wall live? Perhaps the more "everything and the kitchen sink" style of more recent releases is partly due to making sure everyone got what they wanted released?

We haven't seen much of the quality of the sources/mastering yet of course but generally my feeling is that this release is by far the most important archival thing Floyd have ever done. Not just in terms of size but rather revealing a previously largely unknown(to the layman) side of the band. The extra material from the mid/late 70's was obviously nice for people to have but I doubt it really changes opinions very much where as the Floyds live work in the early days differs considerably from much their studio stuff and you could argue its actually there greatest influence on the evolution of rock as a whole(krautrock, etc).

[Wolfpack]

They excluded ['One in a Million'] maybe because of 'One in a Million' morphed into a 'Corporal Clegg' later on?

Despite some similarities, I think 'One in a Million' and 'Corporal Clegg' are different songs.
Even if 'Corporal Clegg' uses some of 'One in a Million', I think an inclusion would have been justified. Or even more so.

"William Henry Butler (born December 18th 1940), often known as Billy Butler, is a Canadian musician, composer, sound designer, record producer and recording engineer. William got his start in the British music industry during the Sixties as a recording artist (singer/guitarist) signed to EMI Records’ flagship label Parlophone under the musical direction of engineer/producer Norman “Hurricane” Smith (Beatles, Pink Floyd)"

He William Butler wrote the song "Early Morning Henry". Pink Floyd did cover that day.

On internet, I can't find any version of 'Early Morning Henry'.
Was it written for Pink Floyd? Has it never been performed by someone else?


Another list of Barrett exclusions, taken from Steve Hoffman Music Forums,
posted by GreenGringo on 30 July 2016:

Here is a list of what is known to definitely exist and remains unreleased:

Interstellar Overdrive (1966 demo) *
Untitled (Sunshine) **
Vegetable Man (alternate takes)
Jugband Blues (alternate overdubs)
Reaction In G (studio version)
Bike (RM1, alternate vocals/lyrics, no harmonium)
Lucifer Sam (RM1, early version)
Chapter 24 (alt take 5)
Pow R Toc H (RM1, alt mix)
The Gnome (alt mix)
Take Up Thy Stethescope and Walk (alt mix)
Interstellar Overdrive (rough mix, take 2 unedited)
Paintbox (early version)
Remember a Day (alternate mono mix)

* Bootlegged from a good tape source.
** Short fragment was bootlegged in poor quality.
Everything else is totally unheard.

We will probably never hear stereo mixes of Arnold/Candy, at least until Joe Boyd is deceased, because is dead set against it.

There is also a "mystery" studio version of "Interstellar Overdrive" that appears in a 1966 CBC interview conducted in London.

Source: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/p ... 80/page-76

I've yet to compile one list out of the lists posted here on Neptune,
including the exclusion of 'One in a Million'.


There, on the Steve Hoffman Forum,
people are worried that the BBC sessions of 1967 don't use the best copies available.
Information about the best copies seems to have been ignored by Pink Floyd.
Putting those sessions on a bonus disc has made people even more worried about bad sound quality.
Not to mention the worries about 'Pow R Toc H' (December 1967) being incomplete.

[jtull]

How could I forget this Barrett exclusion:
No 'One in a Million'!! (Live Copenhagen, September 1967)

But Wolfpack isn't 'One in a Million' Roger Waters song, and not Barrett's?

On the 'Pink Floyd Hyperbase' site it says:

ONE IN A MILLION / RUSH IN A MILLION / BRUSH YOUR WINDOW

Pink Floyd 1967

Lyrics/music: Waters(?)

Yes it's a song performed by the Barrett-era Pink Floyd. But it was Roger who sung it in the Copenhagen 1967. I think Roger rewrote 'One In A Million' for whatever reason into the 'Corporal Clegg' later.

[Hadrian]

was the world crying out for a fairly standard run though of The Wall live?

I agree that Is There Anybody Out There? is essentially a superfluous release. They should've given The Wall a proper world tour back in the day (1980-1983), filmed the show and simply released it on video at the end of the whole affair.

I think that Pink Floyd-style stage shows should always be documented on video (it is a shame that Waters did not film his Pros and Cons and Radio K.A.O.S. tours), but live albums are a slightly different beast. I don't see much point in having a standard live run of a studio album as a release, because it usually ends up being a sub-par version of the studio album with irritating audience noise as an unwanted bonus. On the other hand, presenting the studio material in some radically different way - re-imagined, rearranged, evolved etc. - is a very different story. This is why I mentioned Nick Mason's idea of an unplugged album. If we could have had back in March 2000 a live LP with acoustic renditions of a complete Shine On on one side and Echoes on the other instead of The Wall live, that would've been a spectacular release, wouldn't it? However, for that to happen, others beyond Nick Mason had to care. I can imagine Nick going to David with it, and David just saying "Nah....".

[MoreOrLess]

was the world crying out for a fairly standard run though of The Wall live?

I agree that Is There Anybody Out There? is essentially a superfluous release. They should've given The Wall a proper world tour back in the day (1980-1983), filmed the show and simply released it on video at the end of the whole affair.

I think that Pink Floyd-style stage shows should always be documented on video (it is a shame that Waters did not film his Pros and Cons and Radio K.A.O.S. tours), but live albums are a slightly different beast. I don't see much point in having a standard live run of a studio album as a release, because it usually ends up being a sub-par version of the studio album with irritating audience noise as an unwanted bonus. On the other hand, presenting the studio material in some radically different way - re-imagined, rearranged, evolved etc. - is a very different story. This is why I mentioned Nick Mason's idea of an unplugged album. If we could have had back in March 2000 a live LP with acoustic renditions of a complete Shine On on one side and Echoes on the other instead of The Wall live, that would've been a spectacular release, wouldn't it? However, for that to happen, others beyond Nick Mason had to care. I can imagine Nick going to David with it, and David just saying "Nah....".

The Wall does have a small number of tracks with different arrangements I spose but the non hardcore Floyd fan had already likely bought something like Pulse that had even more extended versions of CB and RLH. I actually thought the most interesting thing about that release ended up being the original box packaging that did have some interesting stage designs included.

As far as acoustic Floyd goes yeah I can definitely see potential as it could have been both a chance to rework some famous tracks as well as play the folky material from the mid years. I can kind of see the reluctance there more though as your dealing with something new rather than an archival release and you could argue certain expectations exist there that perhaps don't with Gilmour and Waters own solo shows that allow them more leeway.

At that stage I definitely think the 74 BBC should have been released rather than the Wall live, not only a lot more in the way of different arrangements but I think its exactly what the layman would have wanted

[Hadrian]

Expectations for a Pink Floyd release are way higher than for any solo effort, no doubt, and that can certainly explain some of the reluctance.

However, I think that David's reluctance to do more Pink Floyd essentially since Pulse came out in 1995 comes from a slightly different place. If you look at David Gilmour Live 1984 video that came out in September 1984 (documenting his About Face tour), you will find a documentary at the very end entitled After The Floyd (seriously). That was made before Waters even officially left the band (December 1985), which tells me that for David life and death of Pink Floyd directly depended on the success (or lack of) of his solo stuff. About Face was not a great success either artistically or commercially (David expressed his dislike for the album in later years), and the supporting tour ended up being quite a low key affair. He was not willing to fight on as a solo artist with only David Gilmour and About Face under his belt once Waters left the band and he had another option now, but more importantly he had a point to prove to Waters who was deciding his personal fate too by pulling the plug on Pink Floyd as a unilateral decision. And David proved his point indeed - he outsold Waters both in record stores and in concert venues many times over, showed him that he is not a bystander but a force to be reckon with. A Momentary Lapse of Reason started as his third solo album but mutated to a Pink Floyd one at some point, and he brought back Wright at the very end to strengthen his case "legally and musically" (his words, watch the order of arguments in that quote!); The Division Bell saw the three of them actually working together, and after that (and the supporting tour) there was nothing to prove anymore to anyone. The only reason we actually got The Endless River was Rick's death, that one would not have happened if he was still alive - it is a great tribute, but it is not about the band itself really, it is personal. I am very fond of David, and I do think that he was absolutely right to continue with Pink Floyd after Waters left in 1985, but I honestly think that Pink Floyd was/is for him a utility vehicle more than anything else (i.e. there is no true belief that Pink Floyd should march on as something worth saving, etc.).

[MoreOrLess]

Hard to say of course what his real intensions where back in the 80's, was he starting a solo career because he had no outlet in a Waters dominated Floyd or was he more interesting in going it alone?

Personally I suspect a big issue after the mid 90's was simply how well the Division Bell and the attendant tour went down. Whatever your opinions of them I think it was very unique, it wasn't just the typical nostalgia that drives other big name acts latter careers, it was I'd say something much more relevant than that and viewed as a much more direct continuation of the bands earlier glory days. When you have a potential finale that good that late into your career I'd say it likely raises the standard you demand of any potential future project under the bands name.

[NineToTheSky]

I apologise if this has been mentioned already, but the one omission that I have noticed is the 6'53" Top Gear version of Green Is The Colour (IMHO one of the best things they ever did), without CWTAE, with the seagulls. There are listed three-ish minute version(s), but not the long one. Or have I missed it?

ETA: I have recordings of this, and I now think that I am wrong about it being from Top Gear. Is it from a 1969 Night Ride recording?

[Hadrian]

@MoreOrLess

Desire to end on a high note makes sense (although The Endless River's chart performance and sales figures clearly demonstrate that there is nothing to be afraid of, if that is an issue).

I just find some of Gilmour's excuses a bit too convenient, and I don't quite believe them. There is that often repeated statement about him not wanting to wake up the Pink Floyd behemoth to do another stadium tour, about wanting to do "an old man's tour" instead - but he just played stadiums in South America, he played in front of 85,000 people in Allianz Parque in São Paulo for example. In any case, there is no obligation to do a tour at all here if they have a new album Pink Floyd out, they could do what they want at this point - stadium tour, no tour at all, small venues only just like The Rollings Stones did, whatever. Clearly, Gilmour simply wants to fly solo now, he is now where Waters was in 1985.

[Massed Gadgets]

Looks like the price has dropped on Amazon.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

Will likely be starting a temporary job soon and I worked out for one week's pay I could actually buy the box after all!

I won't just yet! Just grab that cash with both hands and make a stash. (And probably buy it the week the job ends so I'll have more time to listen to it)

[Hadrian]

One (hypothetical) question:

Had they decided to release a standard album comprising only of tracks previously unreleased in any shape or form (i.e. In The Beechwoods, Vegetable Man, Scream Thy Last Scream, Reaction in G, John Latham, etc.) instead of this huge box set, how well do you think such release would have sold? There is two CD's worth of such material in this entire box; such hypothetical release would be something like the Cre/ation sampler (but with different tracks, of course).

[azza200]

Seen this interesting post over on SHF & it is the first i have heard of it

SoundAdvice said: ↑
I'm aware of an ex venue employee sitting on 3-4 Floyd soundboard tapes from 1970-1975. No one has heard a note of them. The Spring 1975 show is also B&W tripod video, which is the only(?) complete PF show video prior to the Wall.

[Hadrian]

By the way, has anyone noticed the extended length on some of the CDs in the box set?

1969 DRAMATIS/ATION - CD1 is 75:50
1969 DRAMATIS/ATION - CD2 is 76:36
1970 DEVI/ATION - CD1 is 79:35
1970 DEVI/ATION - CD2 is 75:00

I have in my collection a few CDs that are close to 90 minutes in length (the longest one is slightly more than 89 minutes). They are all classical titles, but the sound quality is indistinguishable from regular CDs (these cannot be Red Book standard), there are no playback problems, and they are 16 bit / 44.1kHz just like regular CDs.

...which also means that these two below could've been released at some point as a single CD edition:

The Wall - 80:54
Ummagumma - 86:21