Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

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mosespa
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by mosespa »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:08 am
1. Roger mentioned "Flight from Reality" in an interview in '75 or '76 - I couldn't locate it now and haven't seen it in ages. I believe all he said is that it was "very strange."

2. he's always pinpointed the beginning of writing The Wall, and he's discussed that project to death, while he's said very little about Pros and Cons.

3. Also, you lose one point for not mentioning the origin of "Breathe" on Music from The Body; I haven't bothered to compare them, but it occurred to me today that "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" is awfully similar to "Chain of Life", possibly even down to the arpeggio, which could explain why Rick didn't get a co-writing credit.

4. I'd say they intentionally used "Breathe" multiple times as a motif, and not just on "Time" and "Any Colour You Like" - which was originally called "Breathe (Second Resprise)"; it is also quoted within the chord progression of "Great Gig in the Sky", and the lap steel part is essentially the same. It could be seen as lazy songwriting, but they put a lot work into creating a different sound for each iteration, which gives a transformative but cyclical feel to the whole album, even before the heartbeat was added to do just that.
1. That's the one! Thanks! :D

2. You know, I always forget that he wrote PACOHH at the same time that he wrote The Wall. It just sounds so far removed from The Wall and The Final Cut, while at the same time coming off as a logical continuation which gets underlined by the sudden left turn that KAOS was.

3. I almost mentioned it, but figured that since I'd also avoided mentioning the parallels between "Childhood's End" and "Time," there was no reason to mention that particular cannibalization. Sooner or later, everyone repeats themselves or reuses old ideas. If you do it well enough, it becomes your "style."

4. Which was kinda the same thing I said at the end of my screed, so I guess we end on the same page. How often does that happen? lol
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by Wolfpack »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:47 amIn what way was her [Polly Samson's] comment sexist?
Samson complains: "When I first wrote lyrics on The Division Bell, I didn’t want my name on it because we just lived in a time where things were really sexist."
And then she complains about Waters: "who said, “Oh, how tragic, getting the wife to write lyrics.” And I wasn’t even his [Gilmour's] wife. And anyway, what difference does being married make?"

Being a wife or husband isn't the point of the criticism.
It's just Gilmour hiring a lover to replace his ex-colleague Waters, turning Pink Floyd into a love affair.
Maybe comparable with John Lennon and Paul McCartney replacing each other with their lovers.

As if fans who criticize Samson are complaining because of her being female, thus "sexist" people!

If Yoko Ono got accused of keeping Lennon and McCartney apart, then what's Samson openly doing here?
Feeding the anger between Waters and Gilmour, even when Gilmour rather doesn't comment!

In a stream, Samson seems to have been pushing Gilmour to reveal the person who didn't want to pick up Barrett in 1968.
Hinting at herself being privately told that only Waters supposedly was the bad guy, the only one responsible.
Why does Samson get involved in that 1960s band crisis? She wasn't even near Pink Floyd at that time! Was she?
Hey Barrett fans! It was Waters! Oh my dear David, please tell them like you told me!

Maybe Waters was the first to suggest to not pick up Barrett, but the others surely didn't object.
Was Waters the only member who'd rather work with Gilmour than with Barrett?
And now Gilmour's current partner tries to put Waters in a bad light for that?

Hopefully, I'm misremembering what I've read about that stream.
It's just too silly! :shock:
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:58 amI think they're following The Beatles' rulebook where they only ever referred to Mark Chapman as "he who shall not be named."
Roger Waters as the murderer of John Lennon?
This is escalating quickly!
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Wolfpack wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:55 am In a stream, Samson seems to have been pushing Gilmour to reveal the person who didn't want to pick up Barrett in 1968.
Hinting at herself being privately told that only Waters supposedly was the bad guy, the only one responsible.
Wolfpack wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:55 am Hopefully, I'm misremembering what I've read about that stream.
Or, you could just watch the video yourself; she doesn't appear to know, and it seems to be the first time he's suggested that he knows exactly who said it, but it could also have been Rick or Nick or himself, and he refuses to say.
Wolfpack wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:55 am Roger Waters as the murderer of John Lennon?
This is escalating quickly!
Roger as an attention-seeking asshole; if they stop feeding into it, he goes away.
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

mosespa wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:56 pm ...and one is just sound effects purportedly collected and assembled by Nick Mason.
"God, I resent giving that to him now, 'cause he had nothing to do with it...it was like a gift. It was all right at the time." - Rog

What's interesting about "Time" and "Childhood's End" is that between the various live versions of both and what ended up on the albums, you can hear the decision-making process, similar to how they removed parts from the live version of "Embryo" after they used them in "Echoes", and had they kept performing it, likely would've removed the later vibrato sound after using it on "One of These Days". And I still contend that the instrumental break during the extended live version of "Childhood's End" became "Shine On".

I know Pros and Cons is essentially one long song in Roger's typically folky style, but it didn't occur to me until the other day that he may have been consciously using "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" as his starting point.

"'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands' sort of changed my life. When I heard that, I thought, if Bob can do it, I can do it... it's a whole album. And it in no way gets dull or boring. You just get more and more engrossed. It becomes more and more hypnotic, the longer it goes on." - Roger, 2012

Or, as Tom Waits said in 1991: "This song can make you leave home, work on the railroad or marry a Gypsy. I think of a drifter around a fire with a tin cup under a bridge remembering a woman's hair. The song is a dream, a riddle and a prayer."

Even if that was his starting point, and he was in the process of turning it into a linear dream sequence concept album, that would still be "very strange."
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by mosespa »

I've always thought that "Working Class Hero" was his starting point for PACOHH. *shrug*

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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

It was a very commonly used rhythm pattern long before that, even on banjo and dulcimer. I'd be willing to sit through the Pros and Cons demos at least once if they ever surface, but we don't know what was on there - only that he'd used that same pattern all over The Final Cut in the meantime. Could've nicked it from Lennon, Dylan, Prine...
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by mosespa »

He specifically mentions Lennon quite a bit.
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by Wolfpack »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:03 amRoger as an attention-seeking asshole; if they stop feeding into it, he goes away.
Let's not pollute this discussion by calling Waters an "asshole".
If we should go that way, he isn't the only one in Pink Floyd.

Anyway, no studio version of 'Raving and Drooling' released -
which I think would reveal Waters at his inspired best...

Sloppy liner notes are much more important to discuss! 8-[
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by Gslatner »

I just read the post on Roger’s website. Why would David agree to publish those liner notes with a Pink Floyd record? They are basically just talking about how awesome Roger is and minimizing any contribution of the others. Additionally I don’t really understand how writing credits are given. There is no way any Roger wrote all the different elements of all those songs 100% by himself yet he takes sole credit for most of them after WYWH.
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by mosespa »

It's my understanding that a songwriting credit goes to anyone who composed or contributed to the melody, chord progression and/or lyrics (if applicable) of a song.

Drummers, for example, aren't typically given songwriting credit unless they've composed a drum part that the song wouldn't be the same without. King Crimson once gave Bill Bruford a songwriting credit for NOT playing on song, because he made a conscious decision that the song didn't need drums.

I suspect that Robert Fripp is also a more generous person that our Roger when it comes to things like that.
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by penguinzzz »

mosespa wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:40 am It's my understanding that a songwriting credit goes to anyone who composed or contributed to the melody, chord progression and/or lyrics (if applicable) of a song.

Drummers, for example, aren't typically given songwriting credit unless they've composed a drum part that the song wouldn't be the same without. King Crimson once gave Bill Bruford a songwriting credit for NOT playing on song, because he made a conscious decision that the song didn't need drums.

I suspect that Robert Fripp is also a more generous person that our Roger when it comes to things like that.
In the Belew era of King Crimson credits became a problem as credits for songs written by Belew were shared between the band. So it works both ways!
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by Keith Jordan »

Interesting to read the Rolling Stone interview published on 7th June with David and Polly. The interview was done in late May and Roger went berserk on 1st June. Perhaps Roger got a preview of the interview and decided to shape the narrative by posting his crazy post?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... w-1177233/


Good that there is a new David Gilmour album in the pipeline.

https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/davi ... r-argument
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by mosespa »

penguinzzz wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:51 am

In the Belew era of King Crimson credits became a problem as credits for songs written by Belew were shared between the band. So it works both ways!
Perhaps it's best to say that who gets a songwriting credit depends upon the leader of the band? ;)
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by Kerry King »

Credit is handed out by those who have the power to hand out credit.

Anyone who feels a need to take credit, 20 years after the fact, for something like Speak To Me...well...that's a bit pathetic. Speak To Me is nothing. It's like Pigs On The Wing. Inconsequential.

As Waters continues to zig-zag his way through boredom and pain, I continue to find good music elsewhere.

re: Belew. He was fortunate to be in King Crimson. If not for Zappa, who knows where he'd be today? It's extremely unlikely that Fripp or Bowie would have discovered him in that dive in Tennessee.

it's here I sit
and rust amid this ruin and rancor
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Re: Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

Post by theaussiefloydian »

Kerry King wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:26 pm Speak To Me is nothing. It's like Pigs On The Wing. Inconsequential.
It's not nothing as such - I actually love it as a prelude for the album - but fighting over who did what on it all these years later does seem a little silly.