No Roger No Floyd!!

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
nonesuch
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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by nonesuch » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:10 am

azza200 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:57 pm
pathetic people bashing the post waters floyd and discrediting the others input over the years. Just because Davd, Rick, didnt get credits on those albums does not mean they were lazy it was because Roger took all credit for it. Some peoples obsession of posting anti gilmour hate is really sad. The fact they think Pink Floyd is just Roger Waters are pathetic.
Ah, that discussion again.

Let's see what Pink Floyd would have been missing, if there never had been a Roger Waters:

1. No excellent lyrics in „Echoes“
2. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on „Dark Side“, there would not have been „Money“, which broke the band in the US, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
3. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on WYWH, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
4. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on Animals, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
5. There would not have been The Wall.
6. There would not have been the excellent Final Cut.

Wet Dream had been pathetic, the first Gilmour album would not have made a proper Pink Floyd-album. Thus, it would have been up to Nick Mason to come up with concepts, lyrics and much of the music for the aforementioned albums. Or Ginger Gilmour would have been forced to come up with some lyrics. Or, maybe, Kate Bush would have been forced to play the Bass, join Pink Floyd and write lyrics.

Lapse and Divison showed that the band had lost its creative force and heart.
Those years had been dictated by Gilmour's ego, but certainly not by his creative hunger, because there was none of that left anymore. He went on to become fat and bored. And he had lost any sense of taste. A reggae-version of Money, anyone?
Echoes is a group effort with Rick and the famous ping there would be no Echoes its not Roger who thought of that.

I was referring to the lyrics solely, not the music, which obviously does make the track a great one with the lyrics.

The Final Cut a Roger Waters solo album all but in name. The band all hated each other at this point as Roger was in full dictator ego trip mode

Read Vernon Vitch's book on The Final Cut and re-think your statement again that the band all hated each other and that Roger was in full dictatorship swing, before you post stuff that is simply not true, please.

The Wall the band hated each other as well the biggest hits were collabs with David & Comfortably Numb was originally going to be a solo song by David.

Again false. The band didn't hate each other, as you can get from Vernon Fitch's book „Comfortably Numb“. By the way, CNumb wasn't The Wall's biggeste hit - that was Brick 2.

The band toured early versions of Sheep, and Dogs in 1974-75 David Rick had input in the song not solely Roger like you claim.

I didn't claim that. Can you quote me on that, please? Where do you come from?

Dark side is again a Band effort with them all working together watch Classic Album's Dark Side Documentary you may learn some things.

Once again: You didn't read what I had stated. Instead you repeat all the old crap again that's been said over and over again.

Gilmours ego LOL what for continuing the band which he had a right do like any other band does when a member decides to leave. The only person who had the ego at that time was Roger.

Shame this forum has become a negative anti gilmour forum no wonder no one posts here much because of topics and comments like this. The fact people still have severe hatred towards David to this day is very sad and pathetic.

Noooo! Giomour's claim in 1987 that HE was Pink Floyd was pathetic.

Why not just enjoy the music of all era's saying its not Pink Floyd is laughable so its not Pink Floyd when Syd was not around. David has stated many times he is NOT a strong Songwriter which he makes up with his music ability and how he expresses himself thru the guitar.

AMLOR was a difficult album because of all the legal issues created by Roger & the record company wanted a new album. Its not the best Floyd album but it does have some good songs on it which have become classics On The Turning Away Sorrow, Learning To Fly

Right, AMLOR was a difficult album, and making THE WALL wasn't? The record company did not want an new PF-album in the mid 80's, because the band had by that point delivered all it had to deliver under their contract up until then. Why do you make up stuff here?

The Division Bell is also more of a group effort since Wish You Were Here

Slating David for his weight is rather disgusting and is boarder line Bullying to some extent. Slating his wife very childish and pathetic

I don't think it is disgusting. It is true. By the way, I am fat as well.

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twcc
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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by twcc » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:49 pm

^^^
Sorry nonesuch, your post is confusing as you have merged your comments with others ... ](*,)


I am minded to lock this thread.

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by Follix » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:07 am

nonesuch wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:58 pm
Let's see what Pink Floyd would have been missing, if there never had been a Roger Waters:

1. No excellent lyrics in „Echoes“
2. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on „Dark Side“, there would not have been „Money“, which broke the band in the US, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
3. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on WYWH, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
4. Gilmour would have had nothing to sing on Animals, the overall concept of that album would just not have existed.
5. There would not have been The Wall.
Without Gilmour and Wright input every songs you stated would be 3 to 4 minutes longs on either an acoustic guitar or a piano. Since albums would be too short there would be five or six G-C-D progression fillers by album.

Roger was very important for the band but he is not responsible for the distinctive ''Pink Floyd sound''.

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by DarkSideFreak » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:55 pm

Follix wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:07 am
Without Gilmour and Wright input every songs you stated would be 3 to 4 minutes longs on either an acoustic guitar or a piano. Since albums would be too short there would be five or six G-C-D progression fillers by album.

Roger was very important for the band but he is not responsible for the distinctive ''Pink Floyd sound''.
What does my head in is that Roger did write some really good tunes in his early years - Embryo, San Tropez, Let There Be More Light spring to mind. Even on his last two Floyd albums there are songs like Nobody Home and The Gunners Dream, which do not rely on those same old chord sequences. But on his new album I hear none of that. What happened to the composer Roger Waters? :(

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by nonesuch » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:49 pm

DarkSideFreak wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:55 pm
Follix wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:07 am
Without Gilmour and Wright input every songs you stated would be 3 to 4 minutes longs on either an acoustic guitar or a piano. Since albums would be too short there would be five or six G-C-D progression fillers by album.

Roger was very important for the band but he is not responsible for the distinctive ''Pink Floyd sound''.
What does my head in is that Roger did write some really good tunes in his early years - Embryo, San Tropez, Let There Be More Light spring to mind. Even on his last two Floyd albums there are songs like Nobody Home and The Gunners Dream, which do not rely on those same old chord sequences. But on his new album I hear none of that. What happened to the composer Roger Waters? :(
It's difficult to pinpoint the compositional strong points of Gilmour, Waters and Wright. What made Roger's compositions great to me has always been his sense of drama. To my ears there's still a good portion of that included in his last album. But of course, there's always the element of orchestration that makes the „drama“. If you listen to Gilmour's demo-version of Comfortably Numb there's none of it apparent in that version. I guess that any of them, Gilmour, Waters and Wright, had had their compositional peaks a long time ago. What G and W are doing these days is basically a repetition of what they had achieved then. Fair enough, they are not 35-year-old guys anymore.

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by DarkSideFreak » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:23 pm

nonesuch wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:49 pm
DarkSideFreak wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:55 pm


What does my head in is that Roger did write some really good tunes in his early years - Embryo, San Tropez, Let There Be More Light spring to mind. Even on his last two Floyd albums there are songs like Nobody Home and The Gunners Dream, which do not rely on those same old chord sequences. But on his new album I hear none of that. What happened to the composer Roger Waters? :(
It's difficult to pinpoint the compositional strong points of Gilmour, Waters and Wright. What made Roger's compositions great to me has always been his sense of drama. To my ears there's still a good portion of that included in his last album. But of course, there's always the element of orchestration that makes the „drama“. If you listen to Gilmour's demo-version of Comfortably Numb there's none of it apparent in that version. I guess that any of them, Gilmour, Waters and Wright, had had their compositional peaks a long time ago. What G and W are doing these days is basically a repetition of what they had achieved then. Fair enough, they are not 35-year-old guys anymore.
Not sure I entirely agree with that comment. DG still showed elements of progression on Rattle That Lock, and as far as musical pieces go that would stand up withouut vocals/lyrics, I think I've a clear preference. I mean in general, David's compositions have always been more sophisticated than Roger's, but Roger did come up with some interesting ones back in the day, such as the ones I've mentioned.

Maybe I've not given ITTLWRW a fair chance, but something really seemed to block my enjoyment of it. Maybe it's the production, I dunno. My impression was that half of the songs are just "Pigs on the Wing"/"Mother"/"Southampton Dock" types over and over again and the other half randomly stick chords together with no sense of musical flow or cohesion. Just... extremely disappointing. :cry:

A song like CN is not particularly compelling in its basic form, true, but I guess Nigel Godrich didn't want Roger to put too much orchestration into the songs.

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vizor
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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by vizor » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:30 am

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngreath ... 3b3ba125e6

Yes, Roger had a big part of this. Then he ruined it for everyone. The story is quite phenomenal.

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by twcc » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:36 pm

^^^
Interesting read ... :roll:

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Re: No Roger No Floyd!!

Post by Annoying Twit » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:03 am

It is indeed an interesting read.

I'm not sure that Roger ruined it for everyone. Things changed as they always do. The last three Floyd albums with Roger show him transitioning to his solo career, but they are all excellent albums. I'm a great believer that artists should follow their muse, as the article implies.

I'm not sure how things would have progressed to give us a 'better' result. You can't force an artist to create the kind of works that the fans want without motivation and quality slipping. Look what happened to David Bowie after 'Let's Dance' when he felt obliged to give the fans more of the same.