The Later Years 1986-2014

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
Djgilmour
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by Djgilmour »

Kerry King
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by Kerry King »

mabewa wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:27 am As for 'If I were a swan I'd be gone,' it sounds like the kind of stuff I wrote in junior high school.
As opposed to

breathe in the air
don't be afraid to care


or

remember when you were young
you shone like the sun
?



I bet your junior high school self couldn't touch such gems as

bus stop ratbag
you fucked up old hag


which sounds like something I wrote in junior high school.

I reckoned myself a poet...
mabewa
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by mabewa »

Kerry King wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:02 am
mabewa wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:27 am As for 'If I were a swan I'd be gone,' it sounds like the kind of stuff I wrote in junior high school.
As opposed to

breathe in the air
don't be afraid to care


or

remember when you were young
you shone like the sun
?



I bet your junior high school self couldn't touch such gems as

bus stop ratbag
you fucked up old hag


which sounds like something I wrote in junior high school.

I reckoned myself a poet...
The problem is that the latter three rhymes actually make sense. 'If I were a swan I'd be gone' sounds like a kid trying to think of 'Hmm... what rhymes with swan?'
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by raisemyrent »

I saw roger once on a documentary saying he actually learned to write those silly lyrics from Syd. Breathe in the air was an example. I think the swan is a bit of a lyrical joke that we’re over analysing.

I had to google those other lyrics though. Pigs sucks. The synth intro is juvenile; everyone trying too hard. Except Rick I guess. I never listen to that crap. Animals is too padded and too angry and overall just a band past its prime (as a foursome) trying too hard. Using all their chops own studio etc. After that came the Roger domination (all the same song) and the session players. The division bell is the next prime, as an evolution.
Anyway speaking of which, I can’t get myself to buy this new set. Too much money for some rarity concerts from when I was a child. Pulse I already own and it’s not even re edited, or I should say full length.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by Kerry King »

raisemyrent wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:08 am Pigs sucks. The synth intro is juvenile
Let me guess, it sounds like a synth intro you would have conceived in junior high school?

I like the synth intro. No one seems to be trying too hard to my ears. I hear a band delivering the goods. A Saucerful Of Secrets sounds like a band trying too hard. Trying too hard to live up to what they thought their hippie audience expected. Maybe you're just frightened by Pigs message and the power with which it was delivered. Maybe you require the sugarcoating of Division Bell.
mabewa wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:58 am 'If I were a swan I'd be gone' sounds like a kid trying to think of 'Hmm... what rhymes with swan?'
As opposed to "become" and "numb", or "bag and "hag"?

He didn't even need to rhyme swan with anything so your argument falls flat. If you listen to the other lines he is not trying to rhyme in that pattern. For example 'train" does not rhyme with "late". "Afraid" does not rhyme with "hide". "Moon" does not rhyme with "cool".

Basically, if Waters were a swan he would be gone. It's simply the truth. If I were a swan I would not be here either.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

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Yikes. Ease off a bit. I truly don’t like the song. That’s it. I don’t care for the message and I wasn’t talking about lyrics. I do prefer more abstract timeless stuff but that’s not my point. I think the songs are long. They go on for a while and are based on repeats. I don’t hear that on echoes or wish you were here. I do believe there was the intent to have the songs be long and epic for each animal and they drag along for me. There’s a PhD paper out there about the specific long form in Dogs. I do love bits of dogs btw, especially the slow guitar solo. Epic. Then the ending repeats are just boring.
I understand that they’re all bringing their best chops but I don’t think the overall work holds to as well as say, wish you were here. I am certainly not alone in putting animals slightly aside. Sales reviews etc are on the same boat, for whatever reason and for what that is worth. I can’t think of a single interesting thing for me in pigs. The piano glide is silly. The cowbell is ridiculous. Maybe the end guitar solo? I get the song is almost satirical but that doesn’t hold up with time. Trump in drag at a concert is such a low hanging fruit. The chorus and melodies are weak. The synth intro I almost reckon wasn’t even a Rick line. But anyway enjoy the song. I sure don’t.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by Master_Chief »

Bringing the discussion back to The Early Years boxset... :lol:

I've just realised that they missed a perfect time to remaster and re-release La Carrera Panamericana.

I was just listening to Mexico 78 on YouTube and it completely dawned on me that I've still not seen it in it's entirety. I know it wasn't necessarily top material, but it was all recorded and released in the timeframe of the other well-known content on the boxset.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by raisemyrent »

Indeed. That was all hashed to death at another forum and word is it was excluded somewhat last minute. I got my hands on a copy of the tape and after years of curiosity I’ve never actually sat down to watch the whole thing. Funny how that works.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by azza200 »

La Carrera Panamericana is crap i don't get why people are obsessed with wanting it, shame they did not include the Cowdray Ruins 93 performance in this box set
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by raisemyrent »

Whoa. I agree with you. And I’m also surprised that I never knew about that show!
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

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raisemyrent wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am Yikes. Ease off a bit. I truly don’t like the song. That’s it. I don’t care for the message and I wasn’t talking about lyrics. I do prefer more abstract timeless stuff but that’s not my point. I think the songs are long. They go on for a while and are based on repeats. I don’t hear that on echoes or wish you were here. I do believe there was the intent to have the songs be long and epic for each animal and they drag along for me. There’s a PhD paper out there about the specific long form in Dogs. I do love bits of dogs btw, especially the slow guitar solo. Epic. Then the ending repeats are just boring.
I understand that they’re all bringing their best chops but I don’t think the overall work holds to as well as say, wish you were here. I am certainly not alone in putting animals slightly aside. Sales reviews etc are on the same boat, for whatever reason and for what that is worth. I can’t think of a single interesting thing for me in pigs. The piano glide is silly. The cowbell is ridiculous. Maybe the end guitar solo? I get the song is almost satirical but that doesn’t hold up with time. Trump in drag at a concert is such a low hanging fruit. The chorus and melodies are weak. The synth intro I almost reckon wasn’t even a Rick line. But anyway enjoy the song. I sure don’t.
I personally love Animals, all of it. I love PIgs a bit less than the other songs, but I love the dark grittiness of the album, and I cherish it as a last chance to hear the classic lineup playing together (btw, that is Rick on the synth intro). My only gripe with it is common: could be mixed better.

But that's the thing--I disagree with your opinion, but I think you are expressing it well, and it's interesting to me to hear different opinions from other PF fans. For example, it never occurred to me that Animals features more repeating parts than their earlier epics.

Likewise, the line 'If I were a swan I'd be gone' always struck me as extremely awkward, but it's good to hear other people's opinions on it too.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

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azza200 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:07 pm La Carrera Panamericana is crap i don't get why people are obsessed with wanting it, shame they did not include the Cowdray Ruins 93 performance in this box set
To be honest, I've never heard it. I should check it out, but I suppose that there may be good reasons as to why they didn't include it.
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by raisemyrent »

mabewa wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:03 am
raisemyrent wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am Yikes. Ease off a bit. I truly don’t like the song. That’s it. I don’t care for the message and I wasn’t talking about lyrics. I do prefer more abstract timeless stuff but that’s not my point. I think the songs are long. They go on for a while and are based on repeats. I don’t hear that on echoes or wish you were here. I do believe there was the intent to have the songs be long and epic for each animal and they drag along for me. There’s a PhD paper out there about the specific long form in Dogs. I do love bits of dogs btw, especially the slow guitar solo. Epic. Then the ending repeats are just boring.
I understand that they’re all bringing their best chops but I don’t think the overall work holds to as well as say, wish you were here. I am certainly not alone in putting animals slightly aside. Sales reviews etc are on the same boat, for whatever reason and for what that is worth. I can’t think of a single interesting thing for me in pigs. The piano glide is silly. The cowbell is ridiculous. Maybe the end guitar solo? I get the song is almost satirical but that doesn’t hold up with time. Trump in drag at a concert is such a low hanging fruit. The chorus and melodies are weak. The synth intro I almost reckon wasn’t even a Rick line. But anyway enjoy the song. I sure don’t.
I personally love Animals, all of it. I love PIgs a bit less than the other songs, but I love the dark grittiness of the album, and I cherish it as a last chance to hear the classic lineup playing together (btw, that is Rick on the synth intro). My only gripe with it is common: could be mixed better.

But that's the thing--I disagree with your opinion, but I think you are expressing it well, and it's interesting to me to hear different opinions from other PF fans. For example, it never occurred to me that Animals features more repeating parts than their earlier epics.

Likewise, the line 'If I were a swan I'd be gone' always struck me as extremely awkward, but it's good to hear other people's opinions on it too.
Cheers. Us fans can split hairs right? I mean I rather listen to pigs than the radio lol
Apparently animals has been remixed and it’s just not out... yet
Re the other posts; there is some stuff out there that has the carrera panamericana music. There is a theme written for it; it kind of sounds like give a little bit by supertramp, and it has a couple variations if I recall correctly. Then there’s a speedy (for the floyd) blues jam with guitar and keyboard (allegedly Carin) solos.

Back to the box, this the early years ever go down in price? Was it priced similarly?
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by Master_Chief »

azza200 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:07 pm La Carrera Panamericana is crap i don't get why people are obsessed with wanting it, shame they did not include the Cowdray Ruins 93 performance in this box set
That maybe so, but I distinctly remember The Early Years coming with Stockholm Live in 1967 with barely audible vocals. I've heard unreleased bootlegs with better quality, such as Turin '94 from an FM radio broadcast which featured the entirety of the "alternate" set-list from that tour. I just feel like they didn't think outside of the box with The Later Years and focused too heavily of DSOT, which I admit sounds and looks incredible. Couldn't agree more about Cowdray Ruins, or anything of that nature. :?
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Re: The Later Years 1986-2014

Post by scarecrow »

I think 'Breathe in the air, don't be afraid to care' is probably my favourite Waters lyric, and DSOTM is a brilliant record in having parts which are very specific and personal, yet is universal in its themes. You could say that the first flourish of Pink Floyd in '66-'68 had this starting point of deconstructing and questioning everything (alongside academic stuff like Marshall McLuhan's Medium is the Message or Thomas Harris' 'I'm OK you're OK' amongst all the artistic countercultural stuff) so that (on top of other difficulties) it was probably unclear where Barrett and the others could go next with it (except perhaps darker joke-horror territory such as Scream thy Last Scream, The Committee, Murderistic Woman etc).

It's before my time, but I suppose the context of Dark Side in the UK at least was the post-60s comedown (chronicled in the recently published 'Bad Trip: Dark Stars, Blown Minds and the Strange End of the Sixties, James Riley + perhaps also in Pete Townshend's 'Age of Anxiety')... the oil crisis, three day week etc... containing a fair dose of existential doom, but I think a record with ultimately a compassionate and optimistic outlook.

Aside from a creative flurry circa '74 which produced the bulk of WYWH and Animals, the band wouldn't attempt to build up records through a process of improvisation (either jams or expanding on motifs) until the early 90s afaik.

I think this article is pretty excellent and it's how I'd think of some of the problems with the band's repeated returns to Syd Barrett post DSOTM:
https://bowiesongs.wordpress.com/2015/0 ... floyd-set/

Incidentally, a few years ago I started to wonder if Brian Eno's 'Discreet Music' referenced Barrett in a similar way to Gilmour's motif which apparently set off SYOCD as a piece. Perhaps Gilmour felt it evoked Barrett with the idea of a fascination and exploration of detail, through repitition of a single idea... what iirc Barry Miles called 'a painterly approach' (I don't think Barrett invented this) where slight variations of tone or attack (aided by Echorec and other gadgets) could be used to great effect to pull a pattern out of potential cacophony of improvisation. (Gilmour's Floyd is 'Continuity Floyd', in it's 'art for art's sake' approach. Whilst all the surviving Floyd members do give credit for the contributions of anyone involved, to varying degrees... as alluded to in recent interviews, it does seem to be only Waters for whom the music speaking for itself is not enough, and this partly explains the ongoing gulf) And both pieces might (at a push) specifically reference the ending repeat motif of Terrapin.

I tend to feel part 4 is the weakest of the SYOCD piece (although given that it wouldn’t necessarily work as a whole without it) in it’s slightly turgid blues-rock and the specificy of the lyrics… Julian Palacios has noted that it seems to bear some relation to ‘Dark Globe’, which may well be the case, but ‘Wolfpack’ (also close to 12 bar blues in 6/8 time) seems a more likely fit (eg try singing ‘Shine on You Crazy Diamond’s and Clubs’ over both songs).

Anyway, in my early twenties I remember a Scottish musician telling me the great thing with Bob Dylan was that you could ‘age with him’ through his various guises… and although I was sceptical at the time, I’d say that goes for Floyd… well I did like AMLOR which seemed to suddenly appear and I bought on it’s week of release before reaching my teens, yet didn't see the point in DSOT nor bother with The Division Bell at the time.

I’d agree with others above that High Hopes is perhaps Gilmour’s best song… I feel that as the guys hit middle-age around touring Momentary Lapse and writing Division Bell, this was the start of ‘Legacy Floyd’ (which is probably of little interest to fifteen year-olds but suits a band three-decades into playing together, plus the years that've followed). Stephen Morris of New Order/ Joy Division has recently said similar things and Peter Hook’s estrangement from that band makes a good case for every band of four-blokes (eventually) being a variation on Spinal Tap.

High Hopes is such a powerful and evocative piece as it works as a near-universal paean for anyone having a ‘mid life review’ and comparing the mixed fates of former classmates, what cards were dealt and how the dust settled. For anyone craving a more personal and specific take - Floyd anoraks with an appetite for detail, the video is arguably Thorgeson’s finest work… it’s treatment of Barrett as art school-Pan held up by wood is surely influenced by Anton Corbijn’s late 80s ‘Atmosphere’ which both celebrated Ian Curtis and depicted the cult status he'd gained posthumously. A ‘ghost punt’ makes it through the depths of ‘Dead Man’s Corner’ through the woods close to Gilmour’s childhood home, coloquially known as ‘Paradise’ to reach the open expanse of Grantchester Meadows (eventually leading on to Byron’s Pool)… as Gilmour carries the Floyd torch it’s an evocative portrayal of a band aware of its own privilege but in its concluding scene the bell motif is both current and referencing DSOTM, acknowledging that (irrespective of whatever ‘counterculture’ beginnings), it’s a project operating within capitalism, acknowledging the human cost.