Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

General discussion about Pink Floyd.

Should Roger Waters be allowed to publicise himself on the Pink Floyd website and social media?

Yes
26
68%
No
8
21%
Don't know
4
11%
 
Total votes: 38

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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by raisemyrent »

Ziggy as far as I understand, you can use someone else’s work in a cover (Brit Floyd YouTube etc) for somewhat of an established fee, but you can’t use the original versions without approval and an agreement.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:51 amThat's funny. I don't hear it at all. Of course, I've only been able to make it through the first 2 Leonard Cohen albums and a few random songs from 1971 onward. He's not very musical. Good lyrics, though.
I highly recommend Field Commander Cohen: Tour of 1979; a lot of his albums are hit or miss in terms of sound quality and production, but this one is perfect.

Both David and Roger have been on the BBC's "Desert Island Discs" radio program (in 2003 and 2011, respectively), where they each pick 8 songs they can't live without. Gilmour included Leonard Cohen's "Anthem" (proclaiming "he's one of my favorite artists") and Neil Young's "A Man Needs a Maid", while Roger included Cohen's "Bird on a Wire" and Young's "Helpless". Rick did a similar interview in 1996, where he chose 10 favorite albums from his collection and talked about them; his top pick was The Band's "Music from Big Pink" (with special mention of "Tears of Rage". Nick also said that was the one album that all of them owned, so it was particularly embarrassing when they shared a gig at the Fillmore West, and he thought they were homeless people that somehow got backstage. Syd also mentioned being a big fan of The Band, though he was already out of his own band at the time. Pink Floyd never really fit under the "prog rock" umbrella because none of them listened to "prog rock". Gilmour during a Q&A in 1999: Q: Who did you hate most out of Genesis, ELP, Yes or King Crimson? DG: Probably Yes, ELP, Genesis and King Crimson in that order...Oh God what am I saying? Funnily enough, I don't really like pop groups very much. They were primarily folk and jazz fans that found themselves in a psychedelic rock band, but Piper established them well enough that they could do whatever they wanted. They also used synthesizers a lot less than people seem to think - and most of it would fall under West Coast or Berlin School synthesis, and I know many of the Kosmiche Musik bands in Germany and elsewhere in Europe were heavily influenced by the Floyd's '69-'71 era, and would consider them an honorary member. I don't think Rick even bought a Minimoog until after Dark Side was recorded (I read they bought a bunch, and would wrap them in tape to save their "presets"); they had one VCS3 that Rick bought from the BBC Radio Workshop, followed by two more suitcase versions of the same thing.

Brian Eno also used far fewer synths than expected, and quite a bit of what people would assume are synths are actually just a Farfisa organ that he got from Pink Floyd's former sound guy; it happens to be the one they recorded "See Emily Play" on, and he bought it for that reason, and David Bowie was also particularly excited about that and had him haul it to Switzerland for the Low sessions. Eno also didn't buy a Minimoog until 1976, and he considered it his "first proper synth."
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:51 am
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:52 am If anyone bothered to listen to the discussions they've shared on the Pink Floyd page
Bothered is the right word.
There's all kinds of...goodies available for people like us...if we can be bothered. And we can be bothered. - Roger Waters
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:15 am Pink Floyd never really fit under the "prog rock" umbrella because none of them listened to "prog rock". Gilmour during a Q&A in 1999: Q: Who did you hate most out of Genesis, ELP, Yes or King Crimson? DG: Probably Yes, ELP, Genesis and King Crimson in that order...Oh God what am I saying? Funnily enough, I don't really like pop groups very much. They were primarily folk and jazz fans that found themselves in a psychedelic rock band, but Piper established them well enough that they could do whatever they wanted.
I think there's some truth to this, but it might also just be down to being contemporaries or even predecessors of those bands. In fact, ELP formed four years after Pink Floyd, and you can't really call the debut albums of Genesis and Yes "prog". Yes, perhaps, but Genesis no way. Their first prog album came in 1970. That year, of course, would also see one of PF's more "proggy" albums in form of AHM.

Sure, proto-prog was around already in form of Procol Harum, The Nice or The Moody Blues, not forgetting The Beatles, but still.
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:15 am They also used synthesizers a lot less than people seem to think - and most of it would fall under West Coast or Berlin School synthesis, and I know many of the Kosmiche Musik bands in Germany and elsewhere in Europe were heavily influenced by the Floyd's '69-'71 era, and would consider them an honorary member. I don't think Rick even bought a Minimoog until after Dark Side was recorded (I read they bought a bunch, and would wrap them in tape to save their "presets"); they had one VCS3 that Rick bought from the BBC Radio Workshop, followed by two more suitcase versions of the same thing.
I thought the solo on Any Colour You Like was a Minimoog, but apparently it was the SynthiA...
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by raisemyrent »

I think the tape on the Moogs was on the knobs not the whole thing. I do think the Floyd were synth heavy throughout at least the late 60s and 70s. On the run alone. The entirety of wish you were here is a masterclass in keyboards. Not strictly synth but the whole gamma of course. Does synth define prog? A hard sale for Robert Fripp, I would say. I think the Floyd are more prog than rock or pop or blues but they do straddle the lines. Genres are not good.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by Annoying Twit »

raisemyrent wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:06 am I think the tape on the Moogs was on the knobs not the whole thing. I do think the Floyd were synth heavy throughout at least the late 60s and 70s. On the run alone. The entirety of wish you were here is a masterclass in keyboards. Not strictly synth but the whole gamma of course. Does synth define prog? A hard sale for Robert Fripp, I would say. I think the Floyd are more prog than rock or pop or blues but they do straddle the lines. Genres are not good.
When did PF first use synthesisers? I thought it was for La Vallee. While they were very creative with sound design on earlier albums, e.g. guitar pedal plugged in backwards, I don't think they used synths. Did they?
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Annoying Twit wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:54 amWhen did PF first use synthesisers? I thought it was for La Vallee. While they were very creative with sound design on earlier albums, e.g. guitar pedal plugged in backwards, I don't think they used synths. Did they?
I've always suspected that "The Narrow Way" also used the Moog modular that was definitely at Abbey Road and getting a lot of attention at that time, but it's never been mentioned in the credits. Mellotron are technically samplers, but the artifacts of their primitive technology could certainly be considered granular synthesis, in which case, "Julia Dream" would be the first. Otherwise, it's the VCS3-generated wind effects on "One of These Days".
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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Annoying Twit wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:54 amWhen did PF first use synthesisers?
Rick used a lot of very different synths, organs and pianos during the years in PF:
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Farfisa Combo-Compact Organ (1964-1968) Early pre-Floyd days up until Saucerful of Secrets
Farfisa Compact Duo Organ (1968-1973) From Saucerful of Secrets up until Dark Side of The Moon
Mellotron M400 Mark II (1968-1971) Used in Saucerful, Ummagumma, Atom Heart Mother
Yamaha C-7 Acoustic Grand Piano (1968-1979) From early albums throughout the seventies
Hammond M-102 'Spinet' Organ (1968-1972) From Saucerful until Obscured by Clouds
Harmonium (1970-1982) Used in Madcap Laughs, Barrett, Meddle, Obscured By Clouds & The Final Cut
Steinway & Sons Baby Classical Grand Piano (1971- ) Pompeii, Dark Side Of The Moon and beyond…
EMS VCS3 ‘Putney’ Synthesizer (1971) Used in Meddle
Fender Rhodes Stage 73/88 Mark I Electric Piano (1972-1973) Obscured by clouds & Dark Side Of The Moon
EMS VCS3 Synthi A Synthesizer (1972-1973) Used in Obscured by Clouds & Dark Side Of The Moon
Hammond RT-3 Two-Manual Console Organ (1972-1973) Dark Side Of The Moon sessions
ARP Solina String Ensemble Synthesizer (1972-1977) Used in Obscured By Clouds, Wish You Were Here & Animals
Wurlitzer EP-200 Electric Piano (1973-1975) Used in Dark Side Of The Moon & Wish You Were Here
MOOG Minimoog Synthesizer (1973-1977) Used in Dark Side Of the Moon, Wish You Were Here & Animals
EMS Synthi Hi-Fli Guitar Synthesizer (1973-1977?) Used in Dark Side tour and Wish You Were…
Hammond B-3 / C-3 Organ (1973-1994) From Wish You Were Here through to the Division Bell tour
EMS VCS3 Synthi AKS Synthesizer (1973-1994) Used in Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and p.u.l.s.e.
Hohner Clavinet D6 (1975-1978) Used in Wish You Were Here, Animals & Wet Dream
Korg VC-10 Vocoder (1976-1977) Used in Animals
Rhodes Suitcase 73/88 Mark I Electric Piano (1976- ) Used in Animals, The Wall and beyond…
Oberheim Four-Voice Synthesizer (1978) Only used in Wet Dream
SCI Prophet V Synthesizer (1979-1981) Used in The Wall sessions and live shows
ARP Quadra / Oddysey Mark III Synthesizer (1980-1981) One of them used in The Wall shows
Yamaha CP-70 Electric Grand Piano (1980-1981) Used in The Wall live shows
Fairlight CMI Series II Synthesizer/Sampler (1984) Only used in Zee - Confüsion
Roland Vocoder VP-330 Plus (1986-1987) Used in Momentary Lapse Of Reason
Roland Super JX (JX-10) Synthesizer (1986-1989) Used in A Momentary Lapse Of Reason album & tours
Kurzweil K250 Synthesizer/Sampler (1986-1990) Used in A Momentary Lapse Of Reason album/tours & in Knebworth ‘90
Kurzweil MIDIBoard MIDI Controller (1987-) Used in A Momentary Lapse Of Reason & Division Bell tours & Broken China
Kurzweil K2000 Digital Synthesizer/Sampler (1993-) Used in Division Bell & Broken China
Kurzweil K2000VP Digital Synthesizer/Sampler (1994) Used in the Division Bell tour
AKAI S1100 Digital Sampler (1996- ) Used in Broken China
E-mu Proteus/2 (Orchestral) Sample Playback Module (1996- ) Used in Broken China
Hammond XB-5 Portable Dual-Manual Digital Organ (1996- ) Used in Broken China
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by KingQueenKnave »

I have very mixed views about this.

I'm coming mostly from the perspective of someone who wasn't even alive during their peak and during their fallout - I was born in the late 1990s. I'm also a recent (ish) fan.

For starters, I think we can at least acknowledge that Roger Waters throwing a hissy fit on social media isn't exactly out of character. Not to mention, he must have seriously screwed things up if his fallout with David Gilmour hasn't been resolved yet, there must be a lot more to it than that. Also, whilst I did read he's much mellower now compared to how he was in the 1970s/1980s, he still resorts to swiping at Gilmour, and vice versa. Him wondering why he's not allowed to participate with the Pink Floyd website should be fairly obvious at this point, yet unfortunately he lacks a degree of self-awareness to realise he might just be part of the problem.

Also, to put things into perspective, what does it matter that Pink Floyd aren't reposting stuff he's doing at the moment? Roger Waters has officially not been a member of the band since 1985. From a legal standpoint, why should the rest of the band be obliged to promote his stuff? Besides, judging from the sales figures and audience attendance figures of Roger Waters' solo tours - before the lockdown - and especially when he toured The Wall earlier in the 2010s, he's not doing too badly on his own anyway.

That said, by that logic, Polly Samson's stuff shouldn't really be posted on the official band website as she has never been a member of the group. Whilst she did contribute lyrically to The Division Bell, I wouldn't say she's part of Pink Floyd.

In an ideal world, these two would just say, "this is a bit silly, let's resolve this". However, they are in their seventies now, and the older you get the more stubborn you become. Roger clearly did or said something awful to David, either in private or through the act of suing him, and as such David wants nothing to do with him anymore. Which, hey, is somewhat understandable. However, I am not 100% on David making the same sorts of derogatory comments either. Both are acting like children from my perspective.

Roger Waters contributed to the conceptual and lyrical direction of the band in their peak, and as such was a vital reason for their success. However, through David and Richard Wright - and, to an extent, Nick Mason - his ideas came to life. That was what made Pink Floyd such a great band. They can't be in the same band together anymore, and that's fine, but it's time both of them buried the hatchet or just didn't say anything to each other, and certainly not about each other on a public forum.

Also we can agree that Roger Waters is just a little bored, if he's going on about his former band's website. In the grand scheme of things, it's petty and very inconsequential compared to what's going on in the world at the moment. But hey, maybe he wants the publicity.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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KingQueenKnave wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:25 pm That said, by that logic, Polly Samson's stuff shouldn't really be posted on the official band website as she has never been a member of the group. Whilst she did contribute lyrically to The Division Bell, I wouldn't say she's part of Pink Floyd.
The latest project is a collaboration between Polly and Dave. Because of that, I think it's reasonable for it to be publicised on the web site. As DG is a member of PF.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

Post by KingQueenKnave »

Annoying Twit wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:29 pm
KingQueenKnave wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:25 pm That said, by that logic, Polly Samson's stuff shouldn't really be posted on the official band website as she has never been a member of the group. Whilst she did contribute lyrically to The Division Bell, I wouldn't say she's part of Pink Floyd.
The latest project is a collaboration between Polly and Dave. Because of that, I think it's reasonable for it to be publicised on the web site. As DG is a member of PF.
In that case, yes, that is reasonable. You're right.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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Annoying Twit wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:29 pmThe latest project is a collaboration between Polly and Dave. Because of that, I think it's reasonable for it to be publicised on the web site. As DG is a member of PF.
By that logic Dave Haris deserves his place at the Pink Floyd official site too. Rick Wright collaborated with him on the 'Identity (Zee album)'. :)
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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space triangle wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:10 pm
Annoying Twit wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:29 pmThe latest project is a collaboration between Polly and Dave. Because of that, I think it's reasonable for it to be publicised on the web site. As DG is a member of PF.
By that logic Dave Haris deserves his place at the Pink Floyd official site too. Rick Wright collaborated with him on the 'Identity (Zee album)'. :)
My logic is that if they (say) publicised a re-release of the Identity album by Zee on the PF website, that would be fine. And, I think it would be. Rick is involved on that album.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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The line must be drawn somewhere. Roger collaborated with Ron Geesin(The Body), David with Unicorn, Orb...Nick with Rick Fenn and Carla Bley. Just to mention a few of the well-known collaborations in which Pink Floyd members participated. It can’t all be found on the official Pink Floyd website.
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Re: Roger's Video about David Not Sharing

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space triangle wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:08 pm The line must be drawn somewhere. Roger collaborated with Ron Geesin(The Body), David with Unicorn, Orb...Nick with Rick Fenn and Carla Bley. Just to mention a few of the well-known collaborations in which Pink Floyd members participated. It can’t all be found on the official Pink Floyd website.
Yes, the line must be drawn somewhere. But, posting about collaborations with PF members when they are newsworthy, e.g. new releases or re-releases, seems entirely normal, sensible, and reasonable to me.