The Final Cut is ok, I think?

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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theaussiefloydian
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by theaussiefloydian »

moom wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm Also, to put it short, objectively I think it's a very good singer-songwriter album ;)
I wholeheartedly agree.
The music however... hm
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

moom wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm Also, to put it short, objectively I think it's a very good singer-songwriter album ;)
theaussiefloydian wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am I wholeheartedly agree.
The music however... hm
Roger missed his calling as a folk singer. No one has really ever cared about Bob Dylan's music or the scale of his shows; it's all about the delivery and the strength of the writing, which is how Roger has always wanted his work to be judged - but then he piles on the Andrew Lloyd Webber production and spoils it.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by mosespa »

One of my favorite Pink Floyd albums, and so one of my favorite albums of all-time.

The closest thing to a skippable track on it, in my view, is "Paranoid Eyes," but that doesn't mean I do skip over it. It's part of the story that the album is telling, so skipping it would be like skipping over a chapter in a book.

It was a little tough for me to get into at first, because it was so unlike anything else the band had done and so unlike anything else that had been released at the time. But, a few repeat listens and it began to grow on me. It now shares the spot of "My Favorite Floyd Album" on a rotating basis with The Wall, Animals and Obscured By Clouds.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by space triangle »

A very bleak and dark album, Without doubt this is Pink Floyd's most depressive album.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by moom »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:02 pm
moom wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm Also, to put it short, objectively I think it's a very good singer-songwriter album ;)
theaussiefloydian wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am I wholeheartedly agree.
The music however... hm
Roger missed his calling as a folk singer. No one has really ever cared about Bob Dylan's music or the scale of his shows; it's all about the delivery and the strength of the writing, which is how Roger has always wanted his work to be judged - but then he piles on the Andrew Lloyd Webber production and spoils it.
I didn't mean to put it in the folk category, but more like an almost stripped-down (acoustic guitar with an instrument ere and there and a bit of full band) album of songs that carry a theme.
theaussiefloydian wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am
moom wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm Also, to put it short, objectively I think it's a very good singer-songwriter album ;)
I wholeheartedly agree.
The music however... hm
Well, this album really is the one that is AKA The Division Bell... it's musically divisive xD
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

moom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:31 pm I didn't mean to put it in the folk category, but more like an almost stripped-down (acoustic guitar with an instrument ere and there and a bit of full band) album of songs that carry a theme.
I've said before that I think he should've paired up with the remaining members of The Band after Robbie Robertson quit, and let Gilmour Mason Wright get on with it. I don't think any of them would've put up with his shit though.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by moom »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:39 pm
moom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:31 pm I didn't mean to put it in the folk category, but more like an almost stripped-down (acoustic guitar with an instrument ere and there and a bit of full band) album of songs that carry a theme.
I've said before that I think he should've paired up with the remaining members of The Band after Robbie Robertson quit, and let Gilmour Mason Wright get on with it.
Roger heard you through time and made up for this by inviting some of The Band to play in Berlin :)
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

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moom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 pm Roger heard you through time and made up for this by inviting some of The Band to play in Berlin :)
Yeah, but it was mostly terrible, and even more so because Richard Manuel was dead by then. They only interacted very briefly before and after the show, which is also sad because they'd shared the bill at least once back in 1970. I'm not even sure having them in Berlin was Roger's idea, because most of the other artists were brought in by Tony Hollingsworth, after everyone Roger initially invited turned him down (including Eric Clapton). That whole event was a mess.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by moom »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:15 am
moom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 pm Roger heard you through time and made up for this by inviting some of The Band to play in Berlin :)
1. Yeah, but it was mostly terrible.
2. That whole event was a mess.
1. Not terrible to me, but silly. I mean, I would have never given them (The Band) to sing Mother THOSE harmonies.
2. Disagreed, but I did think The Trial was a bit too theatrical. Marianne in that costume, especially xD
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by theaussiefloydian »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:15 am
moom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 pm Roger heard you through time and made up for this by inviting some of The Band to play in Berlin :)
Yeah, but it was mostly terrible
I haven't listened to the whole album, but the Berlin version of "Comfortably Numb" appeared on the film The Departed and I have to say it's my least favourite recording of that song I've ever heard. It's kind of awful.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:18 pm I haven't listened to the whole album, but the Berlin version of "Comfortably Numb" appeared on the film The Departed and I have to say it's my least favourite recording of that song I've ever heard. It's kind of awful.
I agree - and I love Van Morrison, and I might even go so far as to say that he is a stronger songwriter than Roger Waters.
moom wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:08 pm 2. Disagreed, but I did think The Trial was a bit too theatrical. Marianne in that costume, especially xD
The fact that it effectively made a charity go bankrupt is kind of historic, coupled with Roger's refusal to tone down the PTSD-triggering elements that would harm the very same people they were trying to raise money for, at the organizer's request...yeah it was bad.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by moom »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 2:05 am
theaussiefloydian wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:18 pm I haven't listened to the whole album, but the Berlin version of "Comfortably Numb" appeared on the film The Departed and I have to say it's my least favourite recording of that song I've ever heard. It's kind of awful.
I. I agree - and I love Van Morrison, and I might even go so far as to say that he is a stronger songwriter than Roger Waters.
moom wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:08 pm 2. Disagreed, but I did think The Trial was a bit too theatrical. Marianne in that costume, especially xD
II. The fact that it effectively made a charity go bankrupt is kind of historic, coupled with Roger's refusal to tone down the PTSD-triggering elements that would harm the very same people they were trying to raise money for, at the organizer's request...yeah it was bad.
I. My thresholds are quite hard to reach - it takes a lot to make me call something whether awesome or terrible.
Van didn't reach the level of David's godlike vocals, but then, hey, they truly are godlike.
II. I was talking artistic merits, as in, performance itself. Just recently read David's comments on the charity factor of the Berlin show, and sadly it seems like harsh truth, indeed.

Okay, we're moving off-topic, so, I guess I might ask if there's a live version of any TFC track that, in your opinion, is superior to the album version?

^^
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

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moom wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:34 pm Okay, we're moving off-topic, so, I guess I might ask if there's a live version of any TFC track that, in your opinion, is superior to the album version?
I'm afraid not. As wonderfully depicted in Michael Kamen's "I must not fuck sheep" story, Roger has committed some fantastic vocal performances to tape, but they all took countless takes to get a good one. This was true of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", it was one of their reasons for building Britannia Row, and it's why Roger tracked the vocals for The Final Cut in his home studio. I'm fairly certain this is why some tracks have never been performed live, and others clearly used pre-recorded vocals. Again, I readily admit being bitter about him lip-syncing "Every Stranger's Eyes" when I saw him at the tender age of 15, but he did the same thing in 1984; he's never actually sung it live. I have more respect for his lockdown renditions, but in no way do they compare to the studio recordings.

And I know it's odd to keep bringing up David Bowie on this forum, but did you know that most of his songs used the first take? He'd often record two or three takes, but he usually preferred however it came out the first time. Goddamn!

Earlier today I was listening to Welcome to the Blackout (Bowie's recently released Earls Court performance from 1978), and I was struck by the similarity of that version of "Five Years" and the original live version of "Outside the Wall". I didn't A/B them to make any specific claims, but you've all been warned.

https://youtu.be/BIaZjeaPis8
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by Kerry King »

^ Bowie again? Stop pushing your agenda on us.
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Re: The Final Cut is ok, I think?

Post by theaussiefloydian »

Kerry King wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:53 am ^ Bowie again? Stop pushing your agenda on us.
What's wrong with Bowie?
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:55 am As wonderfully depicted in Michael Kamen's "I must not fuck sheep" story
God I'd forgotten about that. Kamen's nerves must have been shot to buggery by then.