Why some other bands...?

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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space triangle
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Why some other bands...?

Post by space triangle »

Have never written so much about their own 'long lost band members' as Pink Floyd wrote about Syd Barrett?

Peter Green who just died a few days ago had a ‘spooky’ similar career as Syd Barrett. He was a co-founder of Fleetwood Mac which he left a quite quickly due to a mental problems caused by LSD overuse. Despite this, it seems I can't find any song that talks about a tragic fate of Peter Green in the rather extensive Fleetwood Mac song catalog?

Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys) has experienced a fairly similar fate as well Syd Barrett and Peter Green. Several years of touring resulted in a deep depression for Brian in connection with a heavy drug abuse. As much as I try I can't found any song(s) associated with his fate in the Beach Boys opus.No songs of type 'Shine On You Crazy Brian' in their catalog.

Or, we can mention, for example, Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones too. It is not that a mass of songs in the Rolling Stones repertoire after his death is about poor Brian's fate.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Based on what little I know about those bands:

Brian Wilson remained the primary songwriter for The Beach Boys.

Peter Green continued to fill in with Fleetwood Mac for a few years after he left, after which they brought in a completely different songwriting team that hadn't worked with or known Peter.

Brian Jones was fired less than a month before he died, but his relationship with the rest of his band had soured very gradually over the years. He usually travelled separately, and often skipped gigs and recording sessions, and contributed less and less. Mick Jagger later said, "I do feel that I behaved in a very childish way, but we were very young, and in some ways we picked on him. But, unfortunately, he made himself a target for it; he was very, very jealous, very difficult, very manipulative, and if you do that in this kind of a group of people you get back as good as you give, to be honest." Mick and Keith aren't exactly known for writing extremely personal songs, and neither of them were inspired by Brian's death to slow their own drug intake.

In a way, Brian's relationship with the The Rolling Stones seems more similar to Rick Wright falling out with Pink Floyd during The Wall, where the others reached a point where they were more or less okay with him being let go. Had Rick died a month after the tour had ended, I'm not sure that Roger's opinion of him would've changed very quickly, but by now, 40 years later, I'm sure Waters and Gilmour would both (separately) have put out a song or two dedicated to or inspired by Wright. I don't think Dave and Nick would have reformed Pink Floyd, however.

I think Syd's situation was somewhat unique in that he'd known the others since he was very young, and he literally changed overnight. They were on the rise, and they were probably shocked that they continued to climb without him. He was still there, he was still around, but he went from being able to write and sing effortlessly to barely being able to carry a conversation. I've had two friends go through a similar change thanks to drugs - one from a bad acid trip, and the other from heroin addiction. They're still around, somewhere, and I still miss them, but they're completely different from the people I knew as a teenager.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

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I remember a one newspaper interview with Syd Barrett’s sister Rosemary many years ago. It was probably in the 90's. One of the questions was what is Syd’s opinion about album 'Wish You Were Here', and especially about the song 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond'. She replied that Syd had never talked very much about it. But, he had once told her that he was not happy with it Pink Floyd (Roger Waters) had presented his situation in this way to the broad masses of people. She added also she can't be entirely sure, but 'Wish You Were Here' album was probably one of the biggiest reasons why Syd refused any contact with other members of Pink Floyd.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by twcc »

^^^
I recall reading that David and Syd kept in touch, and David made sure the royalty payments were paid.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

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twcc wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:13 pmI recall reading that David and Syd kept in touch, and David made sure the royalty payments were paid.
David and Syd never maintained any personal contact. Nor is Syd ever kept any contact with other members of the band. David maintained sporadic contact with Syd's sister Rosemary while Syd was still alive. And, he made sure the royalty payments were paid. I recall reading how David was repeatedly tempted to get in a car and drive those 80 km (London - Cambridge) to visit Syd . But he would give it up every time, because of he didn't want to disturb Syd, and remind him of the past times.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by scarecrow »

I don't think there's really a comparable situation with those other bands - and my opinion is Barrett was more of a game-changer than those other musicians.

I think mostly the other Pink Floyd members have consistently tried to put a lid on all the myth-making around Barrett for the past 50 odd years... with perhaps the exception of Waters writing The Wall (the album and most problematically with the film), where the impression I get is Waters was so convinced he'd come up with a compelling narrative and concept that this overrode any sensitivity towards Barrett and his situation.

My recollection is Rosemary Breen has tended to avoid comment on Barrett's opinion of later Pink Floyd in the few interviews she's done about him and I'd be surprised if she'd said anything that specific..it seems unlikely that he would've much approved of SOYCD and parts of The Wall, given the various self-effacing and mostly down-to-earth comments he'd made in post-Floyd interviews, but who knows at the end of the day? Barrett's opinion of Waters is mentioned in the longer Rosemary Breen interviews in 'A Fish Out of Water' but those interviews are not generally accepted to be accurate (and were apparently translated into Italian and then back into English), and iirc Breen was somewhat duped into having those conversations. Perhaps the newspaper article took the quotes from that book?

I like how Nick Mason has fairly recently acknowledged that perhaps the band had never considered that Barrett might have been just genuinely not up for the kind of musical career they were seeking (also I like the whole premise for Saucerful of Secrets band)
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Re: Why some other bands...?

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scarecrow wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:29 pmMy recollection is Rosemary Breen has tended to avoid comment on Barrett's opinion of later Pink Floyd in the few interviews she's done about him and I'd be surprised if she'd said anything that specific..it seems unlikely that he would've much approved of SOYCD and parts of The Wall, given the various self-effacing and mostly down-to-earth comments he'd made in post-Floyd interviews, but who knows at the end of the day?
The day before Live 8 events, a newspaper reporter asked his sister Rosemary Breen what a legendary Rock star thinks of the Pink Floyd reunion. She confesses that she just asked him the question, but that he did not react at all. "He is no longer Syd," she says. '' He's our Roger now ''.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

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space triangle wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:12 pm The day before Live 8 events, a newspaper reporter asked his sister Rosemary Breen what a legendary Rock star thinks of the Pink Floyd reunion. She confesses that she just asked him the question, but that he did not react at all. "He is no longer Syd," she says. '' He's our Roger now ''.
What does 'He's our Roger now' mean?
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Annoying Twit wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:42 pmWhat does 'He's our Roger now' mean?
His name was Roger; she was just saying that he had left all of that part of his life behind, and wasn't interested or wouldn't talk about it.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by space triangle »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pmHis name was Roger; she was just saying that he had left all of that part of his life behind, and wasn't interested or wouldn't talk about it.
Absolutely right, Ziggy.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by Annoying Twit »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm
Annoying Twit wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:42 pmWhat does 'He's our Roger now' mean?
His name was Roger; she was just saying that he had left all of that part of his life behind, and wasn't interested or wouldn't talk about it.
Oh yes. Roger Keith Barrett. I temporarily forgot that.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

I'd say The Band has a bitter history on par with Waters vs Gilmour, and Robbie Robertson has written a few songs about it. What seems really odd to me is that Roger could have teamed up with The Band in 1984, as they were trying to start back up without Robbie, who had moved on to film soundtracks and other things. The remaining members did take part in The Wall Live in Berlin, but I think they would've been a perfect fit for Pros and Cons, and Roger's focus on narrative at that time could easily have taken the place of Robbie's storytelling songwriting style. I don't know what Clapton's relationship with them was like at that point, but it seems strange that he wouldn't have suggested it. It would have elevated all of their careers when they needed it the most.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by my breakfast. »

I'm of the opinion that Pink Floyd didn't do enough for Syd while he was going off the rails. I think even chalking it up to 'Brain Damage' or being a beautiful but 'Crazy Diamond' was their way of normalising what happened to Syd, and for justifying their own way of handling the problem.

In the '60s, there was the belief that "pop music" wouldn't last, as a medium, for a very long time. While it is easy to pretend that the '60s was like some live action Austin Powers music, a cursory glance at the pop charts from 1967 will reveal pop orchestral music, film soundtracks, crooners and other non-psychedelic work taking up most of the popularity. The guys in Pink Floyd were affluent, and they had taken the choice to ignore lucrative careers to become working musicians in a perceived short-term medium. Therefore when Syd, their cash cow, started exhibiting strange and self destructive behavior he was quietly pushed out the tent. Saying that, 21 year old British males from foppy backgrounds probably aren't going to be the most naturally empathetic people you ever find, and the notion of taking six months off to let Syd calm down a bit definitely wouldn't have been an option.

With all this in mind, I think it was convenient for the other guys in Floyd to justify ghosting Syd, and not helping with his mental condition, by suggesting he simply took too much acid (therefore a self-imposed problem) and that he was this "crazy" dark muse that somehow buoyed them along. Remember that they simply didn't pick him up for a gig one day: not our problem any more, out of sight and out of mind.

As for the other bands:

Peter Green. An interesting case, but Peter was quietly productive throughout the '70s and '80s. His career was ruined by an infamously high-dosage acid spiking in Munich. This event also claimed Danny Kirwan, who had an altogether more tragic time of it thereafter, but fewer people remember Danny. Giving an unwitting participant a vast dose of identity-melting psychedelic drugs, purely because of your personal beliefs around the healing properties of psychedelic drugs, is a pretty reckless (if not borderline criminal) thing to do.

Fleetwood Mac went through such a metamorphosis that only the drummer and bassist would have any connection with Peter, and those guys typically didn't write the songs. There isn't room on Rumours for an introspective 'Shine on you Crazy Diamond'. Peter propelled the band along as one of three guitarists during their blues rock era. Jeremy Spencer probably thought he had an equal share in the band's output during this era, and he seemed to only get animated when the band were playing naff '50s rockabilly tunes.

As for Brian Wilson, the sinister aspect to his life is Eugene Landy, who famously micro-managed every element of Brian's life for many years. Brian was definitely a vulnerable individual, but I think Dennis Wilson is the truer 'Syd figure' from the Beach Boys camp.
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Re: Why some other bands...?

Post by space triangle »

^^^

This is a surprise of the day! 'my breakfast' is back to the NPF. Welcome back. 8)