Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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Annoying Twit
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by Annoying Twit »

space triangle wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:19 pm
Annoying Twit wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:04 amWhy would you say that?
Just kidding. 8)
That now makes sense :D :D :D
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

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Hadrian wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:49 am There are online rumours that Jon Carin and David Gilmour had a fall out, initially based on that fact that Jon was there in his usual extensive capacity for the Legs 1-3 of the 2015-16 Rattle That Lock Tour, but was entirely gone for the Legs 4-5. Those who claim it also noticed Jon's rather uncharacteristic comments about Wright's contributions recently, also complaints about The Later Years remastering, and his Pink Floyd website treatment, all of it in 2019-2020.

The tour thing might be nothing (it is possible Gilmour added two more legs on the fly, and Carin had other commitments already), and the comments might be blown out of proportion too. I certainly hope it is not true. It would be strange to have something like that happen after 30 years of collaboration. It would be a sad affair indeed, if it is true. I do believe that Gilmour will have another studio album for us, and that it will be followed by another of his typical tours (30-50 shows maximum, at mid-size venues) once this madness with Covid passes. I sincerely hope that Jon Carin will be there for it all. With him around, all of it just sounds better.
I'm not sure what happened with Carin and Manzanera leaving the tour, but I do believe it was due to Gilmour continuing to add legs to the tour. He usually claims he's going to do a small "old man's tour", but with the last one he admitted that he was find the touring to be much easier than writing, recording, and all other aspects of the music business. Manzanera had made commitments to put out another solo album, but to leave a touring band before they reached Pompeii of all places, when they could probably have recorded his album during rehearsals, seems silly. Jon Carin is brilliant, but in a lot of the candid footage from Gilmour's tour DVDs, he seems like he might actually be an asshole in person. (No offense, Jon - I suffer the same problem sometimes.)
Last edited by ZiggyZipgun on Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by azza200 »

On the Remember That Night DVD in the documentary where they are celebrating Ricks birthday. Rick jokinly says "You could learn something Jon" Jon looked pissed off at that comment imo Jon is known as the big c"nt from what i have heard over the years and been told by people online and in the flesh at various meets at pre show gigs
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by Kerry King »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:37 pm Jon Carin is brilliant
Where and when?
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

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Kerry King wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:29 am
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:37 pm Jon Carin is brilliant
Where and when?
He's a highly proficient multi-instrumentalist with a deep knowledge of synthesis, and has handled Gilmour and Wright's vocal duties on several tours without sounding anywhere near as douchey as Waters' many other vocalists. He was pushing the Floyd to get back to the original guitar and synth tones when no one else in the industry wanted anything to do with analog gear and single-coil pickups. He doesn't seem terribly pleasant, but in Roger's absence I'm sure they strongly preferred the lesser of two c*nts.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by space triangle »

Jon Carin is without a doubt very good all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. What if he is a bit inconvenient as a person? Such are needed to push a things forward. Such is Roger too. Robert Fripp(King Crimson) or Ian Anderson(Jethro Tull) they fired and brought in a band members as if on a conveyor belt. But they were a superb musicians and great minds.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Wow - I've been reading through Carin's Facebook posts and the comments to those posts over the past two weeks, and it does appear he's burning that bridge. He very clearly took Roger's side on the whole website/Facebook issue, and appears to have been disappointed/offended at the minimal credit he received on The Endless River, which caused him to look back at the Division Bell credits for the first time in twenty years, only to find further disappointment. He was also surprised that the AMLOR remix left in as much of the '80s sound as it did. But the fact that he's openly discussing all of his disappointments, and now putting out his own original music for the first time, seems to indicate that he's cutting his losses and moving on. In the past, he had basically dismissed the idea of releasing his own music, because he built his career around playing Pink Floyd's music - and he'd also said that he enjoys playing with Gilmour more that Waters, because he was always allowed to do his own thing. At this point, he could just program the MIDI sequencers for Roger's shows, and focus full-time on his solo career.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by space triangle »

Jon finally grew up. :D
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by Hadrian »

I guess we will know for sure if and when David does another studio album and the associated tour for it, i.e. judge things by whether Jon Carin is there or not (he was there for Rattle That Lock, both the studio recording sessions and most of the album tour).

I would be careful with the Facebook thing. Yes, he is all Roger now, but keep in mind that he has been working with him in continuity since 2016, and David hasn't been really active in comparison. If you scroll further down, he is all David in 2015-16, Rattle That Lock days. If you go down even further, he is all Roger again for the 2010-13 The Wall tour he did with him.

Jon is very active on his public Facebook page, and he would frequently answer comments there posted by strangers. I looked back at 2016 when he left David's tour, and there is nothing unusual in his posts or comments. It is indeed weird that David changed a large part of his band for the final third of his ongoing tour (Jon Carin and Phil Manzanera left at the same time) in 2016. It is easy to construe that something bad happened behind the scenes. However, it is also quite possible that the original touring band actually completed the original tour, that David added more when they were on the road already, that Jon and Phil already said yes to other things and regrettably could not continue for the new tour legs, and had to be replaced. These tours are well oiled machines, all of them are long term professionals, they have been playing together for 30+ years, and I would be very surprised if there was some unexpected shouting match behind the scenes between David and Jon/Phil, causing the latter two to just pull the plug on the spot.

Also, if you look at Jon's comments on Facebook carefully, they are not David stabs actually. He has beef with Pink Floyd's new management it seems (website, album credits, these could be their territory). About the website, he actually responded with "I can't imagine that [David Gilmour] would be anything but surprised and embarrassed if he knew how things are run".

Jon is very outspoken, and if there was a significant falling out between him and David in 2016 mid-tour, resulting in them not being able to work together anymore, we would know by now. It has been almost half a decade, and somebody would've said something about it all, no doubt.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

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good valid points
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Various comments he's made:

I’d like to thank A Fleeting Glimpse for their kindness & generosity in mentioning my music.
I suppose A Fleeting Glimpse is now the “Official” Pink Floyd website in light of the other sites not mentioning long time contributors ( 35 years for me, no small feat ), and more importantly, Roger, the leader of the band & primary songwriter & conceptualist through their most creative & legacy establishing period.

I think it’s a fairly common opinion that banning the person who, literally, was the architect of the records that established their lasting legacy is specifically ungracious, petty and a perfect example of low level consciousness, especially as the band ended in 1994, 26 years ago.
It’s the equivalent of a band breaking up in 1940 and still banning members and contributors in 1966.
Pretty silly.
So one would have to admit Roger’s frustration is more than justified.
It’s sort of like locking George Washington out of the White House.
As for me, it’s equally bizarre, but perhaps not anyone’s problem but my own.

Indeed, that’s why I said A Fleeting Glimpse is more of an “official” website, as it casts a wider net and isn’t limited or marred by band politics & fine print legalese.
This is beloved music, not ketchup.

I have genuinely grown to like the music and do my best to serve the spirit of where it comes from.
No matter who I play with, I am doing my best to maintain the legacy the very best I can and represent it with the purest intentions and in the most honest way I know how.

No one is comparing anything to anything.
I wasn’t talking about Brain Damage UK, but since you brought it up, they won’t post anything to do with me because I am told a certain band manager ( or bank manager ) controls that website.
I was simply thanking A Fleeting Glimpse, as they aren’t censored and are free and happy to post what they like and are very nice and kindly mentioned my music that I work quite hard on.
It’s always the powers that be, not the creatives.
I have no issues or problems with anyone at all.

I regretted that you didn't play in Pompeii with Gilmour, your absence was noticed...

I think I noticed that, too !
Money can’t buy chemistry, unfortunately.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by Hadrian »

Of all of these, only that last one looks really worrisome (I am not sure what he meant there, since chemistry cannot really just change overnight after 30 years; he was just recording an album with David and toured it, so it makes no sense if that is about David).

The rest seem to me like genuine frustration over lack of recognition/appreciation/credit on the Pink Floyd website (and, more worrisome again, notes on releases, other comments he made). That could be a management thing, however, not something that would prevent him from recording or playing live with David again. That said, one does wonder why Jon wouldn't simply pick up the phone, call David, and tell him about it all, instead of posting public comments like this.

Remains to be seen.

p.s.
This is probably a long shot, but since he is on Facebook and responsive there, perhaps asking him directly if he had a falling out with David might work?
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

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Hadrian wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:42 pm Of all of these, only that last one looks really worrisome (I am not sure what he meant there, since chemistry cannot really just change overnight after 30 years...
I think he was referring to the lack of chemistry among the new musicians and the rest of the band during the last leg of the tour.
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by Hadrian »

Yes, that would make sense.

It is plausible that David's temper took a dive for the worse as he turned 70 and beyond, that does happen with age, but it is pure speculation (I have not seen anything on that really).
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Re: Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets

Post by azza200 »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:08 pm
Hadrian wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:42 pm Of all of these, only that last one looks really worrisome (I am not sure what he meant there, since chemistry cannot really just change overnight after 30 years...
I think he was referring to the lack of chemistry among the new musicians and the rest of the band during the last leg of the tour.
By the time i saw a show 2nd before last night at the RAH the band was on top form and had gelled by that point, i think filming Pompeii so soon after change band member shows some songs are rough around the edges not gelled enough compared too later shows on the tour. Listen too the last two nights at the RAH on the tour CN, Sorrow are 94 standard performances Davids solos were amazing FOS, IAT OOTD's wild solo's and the band very tight
CN 29th Sept solo


audio 29th Sept set 1


CN 30th Sept solo