Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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Annoying Twit
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Annoying Twit »

Kerry King wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:08 am
Annoying Twit wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:45 pm I sometimes get the impression that I get more enjoyment out of the PF and solo catalogue than some other people on here and elsewhere. E.g. those that think that the good albums ITtLWRW and RtL are gawdawful abominations, etc.
Would you allow for the possibility that you are not open minded enough to accept that members of pink floyd are capable of producing dreck?
The members of Pink Floyd have produced dreck. There are PF solo albums that are poor. E.g. Zee's 'Identity'. And, that's not the only one.

But, those two albums I mentioned are both Floydian and good.

So, I think it's clear that it's not a matter of me not being able to accept that members of Pink Floyd are capable of producing dreck.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Jumaris wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:47 am I had a long conversation with my dad today about this song and he is not suffering any dementia and has vivid memories of all of it. Could you please give me the respect of waiting until he decides how he would like to proceed. He’s feeling a little vulnerable with his music and the interest that has been taken, and we are still working that with him.
Sorry to hear the effect of this story has been a negative experience for your dad.

I think the fans response has been very positive amongst the "collector" types, and I guess Pink Floyd's management needed to act to protect the brand name of Pink Floyd by not having it associated with the auction of the artefact.

I guess people are just keen to know more about the story of the recording of the song as it was just assumed lost and forms part of the early history of the band. Not a huge part of the bands history - if they were involved in any way in the studio recording backing for it - but I guess for a lot of the collector types, there is not much left to discover or new ground to cover.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by space triangle »

Maybe it was not Pink Floyd att all, but Clare Torry as backing vocalist. :D

She provided a lot of worldless and uncredited backing vocals for the other artists, at very early stage in her music career. Listen to her wordless and enraptured whooping on this song from the 1967, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcj8xUvJEwA
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Thanks, after all he is 79 years old.
But he still rocking it after all these years, couple of years ago he was in a production called Sonic Elder, and it was quite well received actually. He’s got a really unique style of playing guitar. I think he’s quite talented myself but I am his daughter after all, so I might be a tad biased.

Of course we are hoping to release his entire catalogue of music of which there are many gems. As a child growing up in Chelsea, we were witness to his talent as dad had built a recording studio in our living room and He and Mike Richards The drummer from Gullivers People would often jam and lay down tracks. We have buckets of reel to reel‘s. And we are currently trying to gather as much information about his life, and his music for some kind of project.

Perhaps he did not achieve the level of fame of Pink Floyd, but he lived that life along side so many young and talented musicians of that era.
And eventually became the recipient of an Emmy award, Juno award, two Leo awards and three Saskatchewan music awards. We’re proud of him. He was never your average dad that’s for sure. He’s always been pretty cool 😎🎶

I will say that Norman Smith was shopping dad around to different bands around that time. And there is a story about Rod Clark and the Moody blues auditioning dad as well. With PF There was speculation that they were going to replace Barrett. I think there was some hope that they would hear dad‘s voice, and EMH and see where that landed, but it was subtle. Not outwardly auditioning per se. and of course we know history, and Norman Smith walked out of the studio with the tape of Early Morning Henry.

But of course it’s not the only recording of it. We have numerous recordings of it on reel to reel. But Nothing on digital yet. We’re working to convert it. We might be able to compare the different recordings and pinpoint a date to see if it corresponds to anything in our archives. If we don’t have tape then Norman Smith daughter would have it.

We are also wondering if there’s a chance that Norman Smith overdubbed dad‘s voice onto the track, and then cut the vinyl from that.

It is a very curious catalogue entry attached to this vinyl that seems to indicate that this in fact was Pink Floyd as the backing band.

You have to remember most of the musicians working in the scene were moonlighting around town. My dad might not have recognized the musicians he played with as being Pink Floyd per se. Hard to know. When you’re also an up-and-coming want to be rockstar, you kind of discount the other musicians to some degree. You’ve always got a believe in yourself as being potentially better than the other guy.

One of the reasons why my dad got out of the music industry was because of the massive egos that was pervasive. One whiff of fame and it changes your life instantly. My dad was a 27-year-old, ex Navy, with a wife and two kids living in Chelsea trying to make it. My mum supported him, and she would make all of the frilly costumes for the band. But, it was a slog.

In the end, and because he used to listen to pirate radio, and was friends with Mike Raven, who turned him onto listening to the CBC in Canada. He would listen to Pierre Elliott Trudeau speak about Canada, Canadian politics etc and eventually moved us to Vancouver.

Before leaving England he became a sound engineer at the sound effects company called studio G run by John Gale. Studio G had a hand in producing one or more of the Monty Python albums, on which my dad honed his engineering chops.

He wrote many more songs, and increasingly leaned towards folk music, and political satire.

Anyway, I hope that satisfies some of the curiosities on this thread. Feel free to ask me some questions and I’ll try to answer them.

Cheers
Last edited by Jumaris on Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Thanks to Juliet for her explanation, which backs the data in the Jarmanie Music library file (to an extent).

All I can promise you Juliet, is that whoever buys the Acetate is only buying the “Artefact”, no copyright is involved with this sale and that is made clear, if anyone is to release this without Jamarnie Music /or Mr. Butler's permission they are breaking the law (Jamarnie Music owned the publishing back then but maybe it has been reverted back to Mr. Butler).

And as a gesture of goodwill, I will also be deleting the Youtube entry after the auction.
Last edited by Shakesomeaction on Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jimi Dean Barrett »

Thanks Juliet! And if you want to set up a different thread for Monty Python recording stories, I don't think I'll be the only one interested to read.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Jimi Dean Barrett wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:18 pm Thanks Juliet! And if you want to set up a different thread for Monty Python recording stories, I don't think I'll be the only one interested to read.
I don’t know if I would feel comfortable posting about Monty python on a Pink Floyd dedicated website. So you might have to just wait for the book. 🤣

But if I may be so bold, here’s a tidbit for you before I go. Python were recording at Studio G because of their vast collection of sound effects. Michael Palin was the driving factor in using studio G, and Andre Jaqueman was the main engineer. The studio was on Wardour Street in the heart of Piccadilly. And my dad recalls it was very hot in the studio and Python antics were outrageous throughout the process. To the point were everybody was nearly stripped down naked and following each other around doing silly walk in their undies, including the engineers. Madcap energy.

Dad talks fondly about that experience and has stayed in touch with Palin over these many years. He’s always had a great sense of humor, and we as a family enjoyed the pythons immensely. And my memories of childhood include so much music and laughter. that we can look back on all of this history so nostalgically is priceless to us.

Like the time John Lennon interrupted my dad at Abbey Road in one of the studios because he liked the sound of dad’s custom guitar so much, he wanted to make a direct trade with him to which my dad declined. After his death, John Lennon’s guitar sold for a considerable amount of money. And my dad still has his custom guitar.

Cheers everyone. Thanks for sparking interest in this song. Now I’m gonna go see if Harry Styles wants to record it 😂 he looks like a young Billy Butler.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:11 pm This was done as a favour for Norman “Hurricane” Smith, as he also managed William Butler (who was also in the studio on the same day as he was a sound engineer).
It was done in 1 take and then Norman took the only existing recording to use it as a possible demo for William “Henry” Butler.
The fact that it also says on the Abbey Road recording Sheet “Taken by Norman Smith on Plastic Spool” also means this was not recorded for full release but just as a demo, because if it is was recorded for a proper release they would have used a 2” master tape, not a plastic spool which is only 1/4” tape and much lesser quality !!! (I was a Studio engineer myself in the 70’s).
Having had a look at the recording sheet, it was recorded on 4T tape. EMI used 1 inch tape for the 4T machines (Studer J37s) in use at the time. I don't think the 8T machines arrived in Abbey Road until the back end of 1968, though not 100% sure on that. I'll check the Recording the Beatles book which has this detail in it. What would have been taken away is the 1/4" delta mono that was always run in parallel to recording the sessions. This was unique to EMI as the Redd desk had a specific mono mixdown output to send to a 1/4" tape machine. It was how they were able to "save a generation bounce down" when doing reductions.

If the tape exists (not likely as nearly all of the early Pink Floyd tapes were scrapped, only a handful still exist) then the 4T might still be on the tape reel.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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LostInSpace wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:18 pm
Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:11 pm This was done as a favour for Norman “Hurricane” Smith, as he also managed William Butler (who was also in the studio on the same day as he was a sound engineer).
It was done in 1 take and then Norman took the only existing recording to use it as a possible demo for William “Henry” Butler.
The fact that it also says on the Abbey Road recording Sheet “Taken by Norman Smith on Plastic Spool” also means this was not recorded for full release but just as a demo, because if it is was recorded for a proper release they would have used a 2” master tape, not a plastic spool which is only 1/4” tape and much lesser quality !!! (I was a Studio engineer myself in the 70’s).
Having had a look at the recording sheet, it was recorded on 4T tape. EMI used 1 inch tape for the 4T machines (Studer J37s) in use at the time. I don't think the 8T machines arrived in Abbey Road until the back end of 1968, though not 100% sure on that. I'll check the Recording the Beatles book which has this detail in it. What would have been taken away is the 1/4" delta mono that was always run in parallel to recording the sessions. This was unique to EMI as the Redd desk had a specific mono mixdown output to send to a 1/4" tape machine. It was how they were able to "save a generation bounce down" when doing reductions.

If the tape exists (not likely as nearly all of the early Pink Floyd tapes were scrapped, only a handful still exist) then the 4T might still be on the tape reel.
I have to take issue with the comment above that they know for sure how it played out. Dad was not working as an engineer at Abbey Road at any time. He was talent. On contract with E MI. He was not doing Mr. Butler any favors, because he was Mr. Butler‘s sound engineer, and was likely as I suggested earlier, Shopping my dad to other acts. If you weren’t actually there at the time I don’t think you can definitively say any of the above statements with conviction. It is also purely speculative. However I do have some insiders knowledge as to the relationship between Billy Butler and Norman Smith. They were friends, yes, but Norman believed in my dad’s talent. He recognized that dad had song writing abilities, and not even the other engineers would know the details of that arrangement.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Kerry King »

Annoying Twit wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:56 am


The members of Pink Floyd have produced dreck. There are PF solo albums that are poor. E.g. Zee's 'Identity'. And, that's not the only one.

But, those two albums I mentioned are both Floydian and good.

So, I think it's clear that it's not a matter of me not being able to accept that members of Pink Floyd are capable of producing dreck.
Fair enough. I think the "floydian" aspect of the new Waters album is forced and entirely derivative without any new ideas. But I tend to want to agree with anyone who uses a Graham Chapman, upper class twit avatar.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by space triangle »

Kerry King wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:08 am I think the "floydian" aspect of the new Waters album is forced and entirely derivative without any new ideas.
Roger is trying new ideas - Ça Ira, Igor Stravinsky's The Soldier's Tale, for example - but he separate it all from his solo album.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Jumaris wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:27 pm
I have to take issue with the comment above that they know for sure how it played out. Dad was not working as an engineer at Abbey Road at any time. He was talent. On contract with E MI. He was not doing Mr. Butler any favors, because he was Mr. Butler‘s sound engineer, and was likely as I suggested earlier, Shopping my dad to other acts. If you weren’t actually there at the time I don’t think you can definitively say any of the above statements with conviction. It is also purely speculative. However I do have some insiders knowledge as to the relationship between Billy Butler and Norman Smith. They were friends, yes, but Norman believed in my dad’s talent. He recognized that dad had song writing abilities, and not even the other engineers would know the details of that arrangement.
I hope my comments were not what you are referring to.

I know the technical side of the studio and how recordings were made in that period. I have spent the last 15 years researching this, speaking to the engineers who were working at the studios at the time, and all the technical staff. I was purely commenting on the technical aspect of the recording based on the supplied information (i.e, recording sheet).

For informtaion, according to the manifests, the 4T tape still exists in the EMI archives. It would need to be pulled to check if the recording is on the end of the tape or not.
Last edited by LostInSpace on Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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LostInSpace wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pmFor informtaion, according to the manifests, the 4T tape still exists in the EMI archives. It would need to be pulled to check if the recording is on the end of the tape or not.
By mistake, I thought 'Henry' was at the end of the 'Set the Controls' reel...
The studio sheet ("23.10.67") lists two separate reel numbers.

One reel having 'Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun'. I can hardly read this number, marked "cont".
The other reel having 'Early Morning Henry'. This number is scrapped.
In between, there's a "Z"-like scratching. As if to make a distinction between the two titles.

I wrongly guessed 'Henry' was made to fill up already booked studio time.
According to the sheet, the session took two hours longer than booked.
Session booked time "7.00 - 12.00" (5 hours), session actual "7.00 - 2.00" (7 hours).

Are those times in AM or PM? Was it a morning session or evening session?
(Is the "actual" time "7.00 - 14.00"? Or "19:00 - 2.00", working overnight?)

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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

LostInSpace wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pm
Jumaris wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:27 pm
I have to take issue with the comment above that they know for sure how it played out. Dad was not working as an engineer at Abbey Road at any time. He was talent. On contract with E MI. He was not doing Mr. Butler any favors, because he was Mr. Butler‘s sound engineer, and was likely as I suggested earlier, Shopping my dad to other acts. If you weren’t actually there at the time I don’t think you can definitively say any of the above statements with conviction. It is also purely speculative. However I do have some insiders knowledge as to the relationship between Billy Butler and Norman Smith. They were friends, yes, but Norman believed in my dad’s talent. He recognized that dad had song writing abilities, and not even the other engineers would know the details of that arrangement.
I hope my comments were not what you are referring to.

I know the technical side of the studio and how recordings were made in that period. I have spent the last 15 years researching this, speaking to the engineers who were working at the studios at the time, and all the technical staff. I was purely commenting on the technical aspect of the recording based on the supplied information (i.e, recording sheet).

For informtaion, according to the manifests, the 4T tape still exists in the EMI archives. It would need to be pulled to check if the recording is on the end of the tape or not.
I was addressing the other person who suggested that Billy worked as a sound mixer at Abby Road. He never worked at Abby Road. He recorded there and Norman Smith was the engineer for Floyd, Beatles and Gullivers People. I’m just trying to clarify for those who think they know all the intimate details. And unless I personally see the connection between the vinyl, and October 27, 1967 recording session at Abbey Road then I don’t know for sure if what is on the vinyl is from that same day.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

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Jumaris wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 am
LostInSpace wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pm

I hope my comments were not what you are referring to.

I know the technical side of the studio and how recordings were made in that period. I have spent the last 15 years researching this, speaking to the engineers who were working at the studios at the time, and all the technical staff. I was purely commenting on the technical aspect of the recording based on the supplied information (i.e, recording sheet).

For informtaion, according to the manifests, the 4T tape still exists in the EMI archives. It would need to be pulled to check if the recording is on the end of the tape or not.
I was addressing the other person who suggested that Billy worked as a sound mixer at Abby Road. He never worked at Abby Road. He recorded there and Norman Smith was the engineer for Floyd, Beatles and Gullivers People. I’m just trying to clarify for those who think they know all the intimate details. And unless I personally see the connection between the vinyl, and October 27, 1967 recording session at Abbey Road then I don’t know for sure if what is on the vinyl is from that same day.
Hi Juliet, speak to Keith Jordan (who run this forum), he has seen the proof (for his eyes only) and can confirm the details are correct.
I can not release this information to the wider public as it is confidential and was sent to me from my friend at the music company with a strict instruction not to publicise it, but as I said, Keith has seen it and can confirm.
The only reason I wanted to know what was on that Acetate was because I was sure it was David Bowie (which I had a few unreleased Acetates from in this library), and I did not want to sell it as such before confirming that it was actually him, imagine my surprise when I found out what it actually was, I wish it was David Bowie as it will be worth more to me.
No disrespect Julia, but I sold unreleased Acetates from this library by The Who, David Bowie, Elton John, Barclay James Harvest, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and other big bands and artists with no issues, and I have never heard of your dad before now, if was not for the Pink Floyd connection, this Acetate would have gone with the other 10,000+ Acetates I don’t really know what to do with, it is a decent track, but nothing much more apart from the PF connection !!!

Also I did not say at any point that Billy worked at Abbey Road, what I said is that he was at Abbey Road that day and that he was also a sound engineer.
Last edited by Shakesomeaction on Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.