Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
Wolfpack
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:51 amHi Juliet, speak to Keith Jordan (who run this forum), he has seen the proof (for his eyes only) and can confirm the details are correct.
You're not willing to share the proof with William Butler's daughter?
I'd expect you to send her a full copy of the acetate, at least. It's Butler's song!

First, you were sure it was a David Bowie acetate.
And now you're sure it's Pink Floyd?

You're trying to get Keith Jordan into this, by sharing more details with him than with Butler.
Butler, who personally was involved with the recording.
I find that very strange. :?
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Shakesomeaction »

I was not sure it was David Bowie, it just sounded like it, and that is why I had to check with the publishing company Database, get your facts right.
There is nothing more to share more than what I already said there is, I just showed Keith a screen shot from the official database which is where I got my details, the details are:
(D 375) which stated William Butler (Composer, Vocals), Pink Floyd (Backing band), Norman Smith (Producer), Recording Date ( 23rd October 1967), Jamarnie Music (publishing copyright), Acetate, Not released, it also mentions “Do Not remove, No Tape Available” (meaning there was no master tape in the archive), that is all the information, I can just not show the official file.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:51 amThe only reason I wanted to know what was on that Acetate was because I was sure it was David Bowie (which I had a few unreleased Acetates from in this library), and I did not want to sell it as such before confirming that it was actually him, imagine my surprise when I found out what it actually was, I wish it was David Bowie as it will be worth more to me.
Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:16 pmI was not sure it was David Bowie, it just sounded like it, and that is why I had to check with the publishing company Database, get your facts right.
You literally wrote "I was sure it was David Bowie".

And I've still seen no connection between "D 375" and the acetate.
None of the photographs (acetate and sleeve) show this number.

Why you're unwilling to share your information with Butler is still a mystery to me.
If you can trust Jordan (who wasn't there), then why not Butler (who was there)?
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Shakesomeaction »

D 375 was the number written on the white sleeve the Acetate was housed in (which also had a later addition of a barcode sticker for catalogue purposes), I have removed that sleeve as it had publishing company stickers on it and other publishing contact numbers.

I have shared all the information, see my note before, there is no more information apart from that, what’s so hard to understand, and also this is not Billy, it is his daughter she was also not there at the time.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:53 pmD 375 was the number written on the white sleeve the Acetate was housed in (which also had a later addition of a barcode sticker for catalogue purposes), I have removed that sleeve as it had publishing company stickers on it and other publishing contact numbers.
So, the buyer doesn't get the acetate's original sleeve?
The original sleeve is being kept a secret? Not part of the sale? :shock:
Shakesomeaction wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:53 pmI have shared all the information, see my note before, there is no more information apart from that, what’s so hard to understand, and also this is not Billy, it is his daughter she was also not there at the time.
Butler's daughter is in direct contact with him. She's forwarding his information. And he definitely was there.
You're not sharing all information, as you keep being secretive about what you actually have.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by hallucalation »

Wolfpack loves arguing for the sake of arguing. Two days ago he insisted that this demo had nothing to do with PF. Now, when the truth emerged, he still insists that seller hides something from him :lol: Like he was going to buy it..
Kerry King
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Kerry King »

I have a small piece of tile from the backstage bathroom at Los Angeles Sports Arena where, in April of 1975, Roger Waters missed the urinal and hit the floor.

In case anyone is interested...
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

hallucalation wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:20 am Wolfpack loves arguing for the sake of arguing. Two days ago he insisted that this demo had nothing to do with PF. Now, when the truth emerged, he still insists that seller hides something from him :lol: Like he was going to buy it..
Hi again

This is Juliet, Billy’s Daughter. Of course I’m speaking on his behalf. My sister has been in contact with the owner, and I’m not sure of the outcome of that conversation yet. As she’s handling that side of things.

I’d like to thank Wolfpack for being the voice of reason in this conversation. I don’t think he’s arguing for the sake of arguing, I think he’s pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Ok We appreciate that perhaps there’s information that isn’t in the public eye, that we as Billy‘s family haven’t seen yet either.

However, we are concerned if this obfuscation is being used to garner more interest, and to inflate the value. Not that we don’t think our dads song early morning Henry is valuable. To us it’s priceless. We have an entire catalogue of my dad song writing that is priceless to us.

It’s the connection with Pink Floyd on this particular track that makes this auction item increase in value.

Even if and when someone purchases this vinyl, they couldn’t release the song. The best chance of this version with PF to be released to the public is for us to either buy it back or make an agreement with the new owner. Or the current owner.

We could release early morning Henry, that we have on reel to reel, and that way people could hear the song in its entirety. And we are considering all options.

If I’m being honest, my dad is living on a pretty fixed income. A 79-year-old pensioner, and if we as his daughters can bring him some joy and maybe even a little extra pocket money, I think it would be a nice thing for him.

This came out of the blue for us after getting a message and link to YouTube on Facebook.

We’re just trying to figure it all out. It was 53 years ago.

And he is very flattered to be likened to David Bowie by the way 😎
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by space triangle »

Kerry King wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:25 am I have a small piece of tile from the backstage bathroom at Los Angeles Sports Arena where, in April of 1975, Roger Waters missed the urinal and hit the floor.
Are you sure 100% it was Roger who missed the urinal, not David or Rick? :-;
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by hallucalation »

Jumaris wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 am
hallucalation wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:20 am Wolfpack loves arguing for the sake of arguing. Two days ago he insisted that this demo had nothing to do with PF. Now, when the truth emerged, he still insists that seller hides something from him :lol: Like he was going to buy it..
Hi again

This is Juliet, Billy’s Daughter. Of course I’m speaking on his behalf. My sister has been in contact with the owner, and I’m not sure of the outcome of that conversation yet. As she’s handling that side of things.

I’d like to thank Wolfpack for being the voice of reason in this conversation. I don’t think he’s arguing for the sake of arguing, I think he’s pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Ok We appreciate that perhaps there’s information that isn’t in the public eye, that we as Billy‘s family haven’t seen yet either.

However, we are concerned if this obfuscation is being used to garner more interest, and to inflate the value. Not that we don’t think our dads song early morning Henry is valuable. To us it’s priceless. We have an entire catalogue of my dad song writing that is priceless to us.

It’s the connection with Pink Floyd on this particular track that makes this auction item increase in value.

Even if and when someone purchases this vinyl, they couldn’t release the song. The best chance of this version with PF to be released to the public is for us to either buy it back or make an agreement with the new owner. Or the current owner.

We could release early morning Henry, that we have on reel to reel, and that way people could hear the song in its entirety. And we are considering all options.

If I’m being honest, my dad is living on a pretty fixed income. A 79-year-old pensioner, and if we as his daughters can bring him some joy and maybe even a little extra pocket money, I think it would be a nice thing for him.

This came out of the blue for us after getting a message and link to YouTube on Facebook.

We’re just trying to figure it all out. It was 53 years ago.

And he is very flattered to be likened to David Bowie by the way 😎
Hi Juliet.
I appreciate that you are making contact with your dad regarding this song and appeared here.

Since relevant documents had been seen by this site's owner and he confirmed that, i have no reason to believe that this recording have nothing to do with Floyd. Especially that it's already audible that bass sounds like Roger Waters and piano like typical Rick Wright of the era.

There's at least one acetate of Pink Floyd from 1965 that completely does not sound like them and there's no studio documents or anything, yet it's on official release and no one question it's authencity. If that acetate (Remember Me) would had surfaced same way as Henry, i think everyone would suspect it to be fake.

Name of Pink Floyd is already removed from auction description due to Paul Loasby's request. However this person does not act the same way when fake acetates of Pink Floyd are selling at inflated prices on Ebay for large sums of money. Weird, isn'it?

I would really love to hear the whole song.

I think it's up to seller to decide what he wants to do with acetate. Perhaps he should send you scans of documents as well, so Wolfpack would sleep well :D

Best wishes,
Eugene
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

hallucalation wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:52 am Since relevant documents had been seen by this site's owner and he confirmed that, i have no reason to believe that this recording have nothing to do with Floyd. Especially that it's already audible that bass sounds like Roger Waters and piano like typical Rick Wright of the era.
I have seen a photograph of a spreadsheet but can't confirm the origin of the spreadsheet. But all the facts seem to point to at least someone from Pink Floyd perhaps playing on the recording. It would be good if Mr. Butler could confirm who performed what, even just some of the instruments.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Kerry King »

space triangle wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:06 am
Kerry King wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:25 am I have a small piece of tile from the backstage bathroom at Los Angeles Sports Arena where, in April of 1975, Roger Waters missed the urinal and hit the floor.
Are you sure 100% it was Roger who missed the urinal, not David or Rick? :-;
According to the spraysheet it was Waters. Also, my father's cousin's neighbor's brother's old army buddy was head custodian at LA Sports Arena and he was the one who witnessed the splash. I'm told the flow of urine sounded just like a Rickenbacker bass guitar when it hit the tile.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

hallucalation wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:20 amTwo days ago [Wolfpack] insisted that this demo had nothing to do with PF. Now, when the truth emerged, he still insists that seller hides something from him :lol: Like he was going to buy it..
I'm still unconvinced that the acetate is the 'Early Morning Henry' of the Pink Floyd sheet.
'Early Morning Henry' has been recorded multiple times. So, the acetate could be a version backed by someone else.

The seller hides the acetate's sleeve.
Only refering to it as evidence - not showing it.

Image
According to the seller, this authentic looking sleeve is NOT the acetate's actual sleeve.

The seller hides the original sleeve, which he claims has the number "D 375" as the missing link.
The seller doesn't sell the original sleeve as part of the deal. Instead, the buyer gets a random old-looking sleeve.

As if the original sleeve has some secret FBI information...
("I have removed that sleeve as it had publishing company stickers on it and other publishing contact numbers.")

As I've had to ask multiples times to get the answer, I feel cheated.
Does the auction make clear that the acetate's actual sleeve isn't part of the sale?

The irony is, that the seller seems to get away with this, while the Butler family has to deliver proof.

So far, the facts are:
- 'Early Morning Henry' is mentioned on a 'The Pink Ployd' studio sheet ("23.10.67")
- William Billy Butler wrote a song titled 'Early Morning Henry'
- Butler and his family are willing to talk about 'Early Morning Henry'

There's no evidence that the acetate has anything to do with the studio sheet.
The acetate might contain another version, unrelated to Pink Floyd.

I'd say that if the seller really is sure it's a Butler/Pink Floyd acetate, he would gladly show all evidence.
If the seller doesn't want to share all his evidence (including a complete acetate copy) with Butler himself, I'm very suspicious.

Again, we're not talking about secret FBI files.
Even Pink Floyd has shared copies of studio sheets, shown in David Parker's 'Random Precision'.
Jumaris wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 amI’d like to thank Wolfpack for being the voice of reason in this conversation.
I want to thank you for really being the voice of reason. As it might have been easier (and more profitable) to just go along with the seller's hazy story of the acetate having anything to do with Pink Floyd.
Jumaris wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 amHowever, we are concerned if this obfuscation is being used to garner more interest, and to inflate the value. Not that we don’t think our dads song early morning Henry is valuable. To us it’s priceless. We have an entire catalogue of my dad song writing that is priceless to us.

It’s the connection with Pink Floyd on this particular track that makes this auction item increase in value.
First, the seller was sure it was David Bowie.
Now, he tries to sell it as Pink Floyd. Without showing actual evidence.
Next time, it might be The Moody Blues...
Jumaris wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 amEven if and when someone purchases this vinyl, they couldn’t release the song. The best chance of this version with PF to be released to the public is for us to either buy it back or make an agreement with the new owner. Or the current owner.
I just hope the Butler family can get a good agreement concerning the acetate's recording.
At least, it's sure that William Billy Butler is on the acetate.
Jumaris wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 amWe could release early morning Henry, that we have on reel to reel, and that way people could hear the song in its entirety. And we are considering all options.
I would like to hear a full performance of 'Early Morning Henry' by your dad. Any recording.
It would at least give a good impression what this mystery song sounds like.

Maybe Smith's daughter has the "plastic spool" tape mentioned on the Pink Floyd studio sheet?

We can only be very thankful that Butler and his family are willing to investigate the subject.
I'm not asking for an argument, I'm just asking for evidence.
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

So we’ve decided to do a video of my dad Talking about the origins of this song, and all of the memories he can pull together about this. And we might get him to perform it live, but we’ll see, he may not want to do so until he’s had some rehearsal. And we will have to discuss the implications of releasing the full song. We certainly have the original sheet music. And we have recordings of it both studio and live that are more fulsome than this recording.

Also, I did confirm that Norman ‘hurricane’ Smith had two kids. Dee and Nick Smith.

It turns out that Nick Smith is actually a recording engineer himself, but I can’t find his contact information to reach out. He might be able to shed some more light on it, and he might know where that spool went to.

So if anybody here wants to fall down that particular rabbit hole, it could add whole new layer of intrigue, or answer some or all of the questions.

I think Wolfpack clarified very well that the facts and evidence are irrefutable. It’s that key piece of information that links the vinyl to October 23, 1967 that is vague (to those of us not privy) But We’d love to see the evidence ourselves.

And I hope that I’m not throwing a monkey wrench into the works by being honest about this recording. We’re not trying to stop anyone from making money off an investment that they rightly purchased. Of course it will be limited in what they can do with it. It’s a collectors item. Not for publication.

And I do believe that because it’s not a Pink Floyd composition, Loasby has no reason to support the connection. Floyd’s not gonna make it dime from this. My dad is the sole composer and therefore if tomorrow it went to number one on the charts he would be the beneficiary of the royalties. That’s my two pennies on that subject.

Cheers
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Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

An acoustic version of the full song would be much welcomed. I would be very happy to feature it here on NPF. Many thousands of people have read the article on EMH already so there would be a good audience for it. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.