Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
Wolfpack
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Can NPF update the article about this acetate?
By mentioning it's so far unproven to be a Pink Floyd recording?
And that the shown sleeve (in the article's photos) is not authentic?
https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/earl ... pink-floyd

Now, the article reads like an misleading advertisement to me.
Using the name Pink Floyd for something which might not be Pink Floyd at all.
User avatar
Keith Jordan
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16678
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:54 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

Wolfpack wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:55 am Can NPF update the article about this acetate?
By mentioning it's so far unproven to be a Pink Floyd recording?
And that the shown sleeve (in the article's photos) is not authentic?
https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/earl ... pink-floyd

Now, the article reads like an misleading advertisement to me.
Using the name Pink Floyd for something which might not be Pink Floyd at all.
On balance I am comfortable with the authenticity of the claim that Pink Floyd was involved. Therefore I do not need to change the article. You are welcome to share your opinion here on the forum, and I remind you we are a friendly community so you should share your opinion respectfully without slandering the seller.

Jumaris wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:29 am If not maybe somebody else on this thread might know more and would be willing to send us in the right direction. Keith?

I’m In the process of trying to get dad’s website updated, and we’re contemplating doing an online concert so people can hear early morning Henry in its entirety live. This won’t happen in the next few weeks. But, I’m working on organizing a benefit show 😎 and dad has been inspired to write some new songs. He’s really stoked by all this attention.

\:D/
Unfortunately I do not know who owns the publishing catalogue.

Great news that your dad is having a more positive experience now with the news of the acetate.
Wolfpack
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Keith Jordan wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:55 amYou are welcome to share your opinion here on the forum, and I remind you we are a friendly community so you should share your opinion respectfully without slandering the seller.
Well, then I'm happy the article at least provides a link to this discussion, where I can share my doubts about all this positivity to have found a lost "Pink Floyd" recording. Fair enough, I guess.
I'm respectful but critical and sceptical about the seller's claims. His claims, not at all his person.
I think we would all benefit by having undeniably evidence. Maybe Norman Smith's daughter has the "plastic spool". Let's investigate that!

However, I think the seller also should show some respect to the potential buyers, who just ask him for the ultimate proof.
Threatening to take critical potential buyers to court isn't really a way to have a respectful, thorough discussion about the real origin of the acetate.

Let's all be positive, without going to court.
Unless... it's... 'The Trial'! :D

Juliet Jumaris Butler, I hope the negativity won't keep you from posting more about your father. Without fear of getting censored.
The derisive question "who is this Billy Butler"... Some people even ask "who is this Roger Waters"! :lol:
Jumaris
Embryo
Embryo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 am
Gender: Female

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

Wolfpack wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:14 am
Keith Jordan wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:55 amYou are welcome to share your opinion here on the forum, and I remind you we are a friendly community so you should share your opinion respectfully without slandering the seller.
Well, then I'm happy the article at least provides a link to this discussion, where I can share my doubts about all this positivity to have found a lost "Pink Floyd" recording. Fair enough, I guess.
I'm respectful but critical and sceptical about the seller's claims. His claims, not at all his person.
I think we would all benefit by having undeniably evidence. Maybe Norman Smith's daughter has the "plastic spool". Let's investigate that!

However, I think the seller also should show some respect to the potential buyers, who just ask him for the ultimate proof.
Threatening to take critical potential buyers to court isn't really a way to have a respectful, thorough discussion about the real origin of the acetate.

Let's all be positive, without going to court.
Unless... it's... 'The Trial'! :D

Juliet Jumaris Butler, I hope the negativity won't keep you from posting more about your father. Without fear of getting censored.
The derisive question "who is this Billy Butler"... Some people even ask "who is this Roger Waters"! :lol:
I actually think this is been pretty respectful for the most part. I think I might be a little confused as to why we’ve been swerved. But I’ll reserve judgement on those reasons and let it go. Early morning Henry has gained a lot of traction on YouTube, and it stands out among the other offerings.

I actually don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask these probing questions, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that trust is not easy to come by on the Internet, so many of us will likely remain skeptical unless proven otherwise. I wish I had another answer for everybody. I wish I could definitively say that dad remembered the session.

We’ve been trying to go over those memory banks I’ve been getting lots of great stuff, but not the stuff we need to verify. although, the onus is not on Billy Butler to verify on behalf of the seller. I believe that falls into the proverbial lap of the owner of the acetate that shall be forever badly labelled :shock:

I wonder what would’ve happened if I hadn’t been tracked down by Marks Sturdy on Facebook last week. At least I was able to confirm that it was my dad singing. And there’s absolutely no confusion on that. Like I said, somebody tracked me down and I hope my arrival here didn’t throw a wrench into the works for the seller. But transparency is required for authentication anyway, so I can’t imagine why he’d be so pressed. But I digress.

I threw together a new video and song that dad is singing on with eternal triangle. It’s called windows

I haven’t heard it in years so I’ve been spinning it pretty good... enjoy

User avatar
Keith Jordan
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16678
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:54 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

Jumaris wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:29 am Who owns the Jamarnie Music catalogue now?
"From my information, Jamarnie Music was owned by EMI Music publishing which is now owned by SONY / ATV Music, so they are probably the ones who own the copyright on the track."
Jumaris
Embryo
Embryo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 am
Gender: Female

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

Keith Jordan wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:34 am
Jumaris wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:29 am Who owns the Jamarnie Music catalogue now?
"From my information, Jamarnie Music was owned by EMI Music publishing which is now owned by SONY / ATV Music, so they are probably the ones who own the copyright on the track."
Thanks Keith. Yeah I’ve been on the EMI/Sony websites and There’s no mention of Jamarnie, so it’s probably buried in a swath of tiny record labels that Sony hasn’t acknowledged with a line item on their website. 😂

👍
Wolfpack
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

References to Pink Floyd have been removed from the auction.
The description now mentions a "big name world renowned group".
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 41012a3a48

If the seller could really prove the acetate is really Pink Floyd, there would be no Paul Loasby (or whoever) be able to keep it from auctioned as such.

Proof is proof!
So far, I haven't seen any.
User avatar
Keith Jordan
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16678
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:54 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

We know your opinion, Wolfpack. You don't have to keep labouring it.
Wolfpack
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

Keith Jordan wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:23 pmWe know your opinion, Wolfpack. You don't have to keep labouring it.
Hey! Please! I'm just trying my best to get sure what this 'Early Morning Henry' is all about.
Even Billy Butler himself has questions about this acetate. And the seller avoids getting in contact with him.

You can't invite people for a discussion and then discourage them to labour it further.
All I can say is, I know your opinion about praising this acetate as the real thing, as part of a NPF article.

You just haven't convinced me, no matter your secret contact with the seller.

Do you really mind people being critical about this new "Pink Floyd" find, which at least has given the Butler family a lot of pleasure?
So far, at least a previously unknown Billy Butler acetate has been discovered. No matter who participated.
Kerry King
Knife
Knife
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:54 am

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Kerry King »

Wolfpack wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:59 pm You just haven't convinced me
At this point you might ask yourself why anyone would give a shit about convincing you. This whole subject is so unimportant in the context of what's going on in the world right now. It's basically irrelevant. Who cares if it's pink floyd if you can't even tell by listening to it? Might as well be The Archies.
Jumaris
Embryo
Embryo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 am
Gender: Female

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

Kerry King wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:30 am
Wolfpack wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:59 pm You just haven't convinced me
At this point you might ask yourself why anyone would give a shit about convincing you. This whole subject is so unimportant in the context of what's going on in the world right now. It's basically irrelevant. Who cares if it's pink floyd if you can't even tell by listening to it? Might as well be The Archies.
Well I loved ❤️ the Archies myself, I’m a girl of the generation who grew up listening to pop music.

I appreciate the discourse no matter the detractors. Everyone has their own taste in music.

Whether this song sounds like PF or not isn’t the point.

A mystery has been solved NOT by the finding of this vinyl. It was solved a few years ago when I came online and confirmed that Early morning Henry was my dads song. So that has been on the Internet since around 2015.

The discovery of this particular recording is probably, and My best guess is that it’s authentic. But making the connection to the entry on the studio sheet from October 23, 1967, and vinyl that doesn’t have any markings that would indicate the two are connected is the missing information that would corroborate it.

I think given that the seller was able to confirm some key details without benefit of prior knowledge, then i’m leaning towards it being authentic. most of the vagary fits into a similar narrative. The connection is Norman Smith. The connection is EMI studio. The connection is knowing that Pink Floyd did play it in the studio on October 23, 1967.

So? If this vinyl is from the collection that was purchased from the archives of EMI. then I am inclined to lean in the direction of it’s likely the missing recording from October 23, 1967, If it were not, then it would sound more like Gulliver's people. There would be additional harmonies and orchestrations, and It’s a pretty light instrumental demo track. It fits the narrative.

I do think the seller should find a way to authenticate if possible. It would be to his and the buyers benefit.

Even if my dad remembers the session, it doesn’t relate to the physical vinyl that is in the sellers possession. It’s a standalone recording with missing identifiers. Private records indicate the additional details. So it’s too bad that those private records cannot be part of the sale.

The person who buys it won’t be able to publish, which seller has made clear.

I just want to see my dad happy in his twilight years, and watching him light up over this is priceless. I don’t expect any of you to understand that, and to those who do, thank you 🙏

Everybody’s got something on their plate, and the world is waiting with baited breath to see what happens on November 3. So all of this is a mere distraction from some serious goings-on.

But there’s Nothing wrong with a good distraction 🤗
Life can’t all be doom and gloom. Not when there’s music and art to appreciate.

Cheers
User avatar
space triangle
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 675
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:25 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by space triangle »

Maybe it wasn't Pink Floyd as backing band, but Sigma 6 or Screaming Abdabs? :D
Jumaris
Embryo
Embryo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 am
Gender: Female

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Jumaris »

Thinking critically. We could narrow it down to a list of these specific artists who were signed to EMI during the 1960s. In the early 60s the EMI contracts were signed so all artists were required to record at EMI studios.

From Wikipedia

1960s
The Band (Capitol)
The Beach Boys (Capitol)
The Beatles (Parlophone/EMI/Capitol/Apple). Now bought by Universal.
Bobby Darin (Capitol)
Gerry and the Pacemakers (Columbia Gramophone)
The Animals (Columbia Graphophone, left in 1966)
The Yardbirds (Columbia Gramophone)
The Hollies (Parlophone/EMI, 1963–1972, 1986–Present)
Gullivers People (Parlophone/EMI, 1965–1969)
Pink Floyd (Tower/Harvest/EMI/Capitol/Columbia Gramophone)
The Pretty Things (Harvest/Columbia Gramophone, 1968–1972)
Deep Purple (Parlophone/Purple/Harvest, left in 1976; EMI for Japan and Europe outside UK, 1997–2003)
Cilla Black (Parlophone)
Pepe Jaramillo (Parlophone, EMI)
Billy J. Kramer (Parlophone)
The Fourmost (Parlophone)
The Shadows (Columbia Gramophone/EMI, left in 1980)
Herman's Hermits (Columbia Gramophone)
The Dave Clark Five (Columbia Gramophone)
Helen Shapiro (Columbia Gramophone)
Manfred Mann (HMV, left in 1966)
The Move (Regal Zonophone)
Procol Harum (Regal Zonophone, left in 1970)
T. Rex (band) (Regal Zonophone)
Joe Cocker (Regal Zonophone/EMI, 1968–1970, 1999–2007)
Peter and Gordon (Columbia Gramophone/Capitol)
The Swallows (Malaysian Band) (Columbia)
Wolfpack
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Wolfpack »

I've just tried to defend this Pink Floyd manager Paul Loasby, who's been put aside as not really being able to identify Pink Floyd...
And who's been pictured as an almighty super power who can take down any auction which has the name "Pink Floyd" in its description. Sending people a chopped off pig head, or maybe a boxing glove in a box... :o

If I would happen to discover a bunch of photos showing Pink Floyd members dressed in Halloween costumes and can prove it's really them behind the masks, there will no Pink Floyd manager be able to keep me from selling those photos as such.

That's the nuance I'm trying to bring into this discussion, in my slightly repetitive posting about the auction's current status.
Managers can be very powerful, but they can't just do anything they want.

Just for all the paranoids in the audience. :P
User avatar
Keith Jordan
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16678
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:54 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Listen to Early Morning Henry featuring Pink Floyd

Post by Keith Jordan »

There is no issue inputting your point across, it's just the flooding of the same point. I think I am 90% comfortable on the authenticity question. It would be nice to have further evidence for the last 10% though. But as has been mentioned, the onus is not on Mr Butler.