"Yet Another Movie" -> "Keep Talking"

[ZiggyZipgun]

Amused to Death doesn't have much to go on conceptually, either. Why not just make a TV show about why we shouldn't watch TV? If we took his advice, he'd be out of a job and back in the breadline following his next divorce.

[theaussiefloydian]

If we took his advice, he'd be out of a job

I could point out the obvious point that Waters is a musician, not a TV personality, but I would like to move onto your first point.

Amused to Death doesn't have much to go on conceptually, either. Why not just make a TV show about why we shouldn't watch TV?

The point of the album isn't "TV is bad and we shouldn't watch it" - that is the surface level interpretation that my already technofear-addled high school brain arrived at. It is much more a concerned look at the effects of the media on how we relate to each other - the sensationalisation of war, televangelists, and a hyper obsession on what's happening on a screen with a sense of apathy about the real world. These are all real, valid points, and part of the reason for the 2015 re-release is because these themes continue to be relevant. These themes are not as vapid and shallow as your comment seems to suggest. This is not a defence of the album - I find it a bit pretentious and largely musically uninteresting, and the lyrics make use of an ethnic slur for East Asian people several times (I'm assuming to make the point that nobody cares about the current affairs they see on TV, but is still a problem regardless). But if we're gonna engage with his works, we should engage with them in good faith.

and back in the breadline following his next divorce.

I've had a chuckle myself at Waters' many marriages, but they're not overly relevant in a discussion about his music.

[ZiggyZipgun]

I've had a chuckle myself at Waters' many marriages, but they're not overly relevant in a discussion about his music.

Only the consistent timing of his releases, and that his combined alimony likely dwarfs the GDP of some of the countries he sings about and claims to support.

I could point out the obvious point that Waters is a musician, not a TV personality

He has only ever worked in the entertainment industry. He shares a touching story that he only became aware of while sitting around watching tv. He tried to follow up that album with a concept album about the internet but gave up. Social media has become his preferred creative outlet, since he can claim to be a political activist or just bitch about Dave and Polly - the tone is always the same.

[theaussiefloydian]

He shares a touching story that he only became aware of while sitting around watching tv.

Pointing out the problems and concerns with a society obsessed with the media is not mutually exclusive from learning things from said media.

Social media has become his preferred creative outlet, since he can claim to be a political activist or just bitch about Dave and Polly - the tone is always the same.

I'm not entirely moved to argue with you here. The way he carries on about David and Polly on social media is pretty ridiculous, and I'm not convinced he does nearly as much as he says he does by way of his political beliefs.

Just as a side note how the hell did we wind up here from a discussion about songs from A Momentary Lapse of Reason?

[ZiggyZipgun]

Just as a side note how the hell did we wind up here from a discussion about songs from A Momentary Lapse of Reason?

You brought up Amused to Death.

I was making some sweeping generalizations about its themes, simply because we've already picked it apart in other threads and like its creator, it hasn't improved with age.

If he felt morally obligated to raise awareness of certain social issues, or wanted to achieve anything, using entertainment as his mouthpiece might be the least effective way to go about it.

I have a similar issue with religions, since their creators coincidentally all chose a game of "Chinese whispers"* to announce their existence.

(*had to look up what it was actually called)

[theaussiefloydian]

You brought up Amused to Death.

I mean yeah but as a passing reference really to agree with a point about concept albums. Had no idea it would spin in this direction.

I was making some sweeping generalizations about its themes, simply because we've already picked it apart in other threads and like its creator, it hasn't improved with age.

It may not have improved with age (it seems the general consensus is that the 2015 remix actually hurts it), but its themes are certainly relevant, distressingly enough.

If he felt morally obligated to raise awareness of certain social issues, or wanted to achieve anything, using entertainment as his mouthpiece might be the least effective way to go about it.

I confess I can't see what you mean. Art will always be used by people to convey feelings and expressions on the things that surround them. It's just the nature of it. So Waters using his preferred method of art to express his concerns makes (ahem) Perfect Sense. And whatever you may make of Amused to Death, it is by definition a work of art.
And artists use art to discuss that specific art form all the time. You mentioned earlier the concept of making a TV show about how TV sucks (forgive my paraphrasing). Producers and filmmakers do that all the time. Blazing Saddles was a comedy that sought to comment on how Westerns - a very popular genre at the time - cheerily neglected to mention the abject racism in the Old West. Heck, a more relevant example would the The Truman Show, a film that commented on our obsession with television that has also become disturbingly relevant in the advent of reality TV. People do this all the time, and it would not be hypocrisy to do so. I do consider Waters to be deeply hypocritical on some things, but this is not one of them.
Phew. That got philosophical. My point is Waters is well within the bounds of artistic taste to express his feelings the way he does. Whether it makes a good album is a completely different matter entirely.

[ZiggyZipgun]

The climax of the title track was actually written in reference to the Momentary Lapse of Reason tour. He then cobbled that together with some other ideas about media and made every effort to turn it into an all-engrossing album - and had enough people bought it, he was prepared to present it as another "rock and roll spectacle" along the lines of that same tour. There must be a more efficient vehicle for these artistic statements than less-than-popular music.

[mosespa]

I would contest Roger has shot himself in the foot by focusing on shit concepts instead of making good music first.

If "worrying about the state of the world and the way it affects everyone with an eye towards finding a way to open up discussions as to how we can make it better" is your idea of a "shit concept," I don't know if I'd want to know what you consider a good concept. *shrug*

[theaussiefloydian]

If "worrying about the state of the world and the way it affects everyone with an eye towards finding a way to open up discussions as to how we can make it better" is your idea of a "shit concept," I don't know if I'd want to know what you consider a good concept. *shrug*

I feel mostly this, though I find Waters doesn't offer much by way of "how could we do better" on the albums as such.

The climax of the title track was actually written in reference to the Momentary Lapse of Reason tour. He then cobbled that together with some other ideas about media and made every effort to turn it into an all-engrossing album - and had enough people bought it, he was prepared to present it as another "rock and roll spectacle" along the lines of that same tour. There must be a more efficient vehicle for these artistic statements than less-than-popular music.

Point A. Your discussion of how the album was put together seems to be speculation, although if you have sources on that I would love to see 'em.
Point B. It is true not enough people bought the album to justify a massive tour, but if there's one thing I respect Waters for it is his sense of showmanship so a massive Amused to Death tour could have provided some interesting stuff so, whilst I am on record saying I'm not the album's biggest fan, the loss of what he'd have done with it on stage is still a shame.

There must be a more efficient vehicle for these artistic statements than less-than-popular music.

The popularity of the music is neither here nor there. When my brother and I first started composing music together, it was a rocky climb before we knew what we were doing. Our first piece of music we made that we liked was a sort of avant-garde collage, using the Windows 95 theme as a backbone as all these sounds from the past surfaced under it and then disappeared again. The whole piece was put together as a way of expressing a concern (in much more simplistic terms than this) that one day, all that would be left of us is these sounds, this technology, and that our culture would just be boiled down to these machines and nothing else. We knew that nobody would ever hear this piece, as licencing the samples would have been far too much of a headache for releasing it to be an option. But we made it anyway.
What is my point here? That art is not always just for the consumer. No doubt Waters was disappointed by the reception Amused to Death got. But the popularity of the work is not the method by which the quality of the art or its message should be determined. On a technical level you might be right about efficiency but if art is the means by which you feel you're going to better express yourself, then do that.

[ZiggyZipgun]

Point A: Read his 1988 interview for Penthouse.

Point C: The Windows 95 theme isn't my favorite Brian Eno song, but it's catchy.

[theaussiefloydian]

Point A: Read his 1988 interview for Penthouse.

Found it.

Indeed, one day last winter, as the personnel calling themselves Pink Floyd were moving across the map from San Diego to Sydney in fierce pursuit of ticket sales, a pensive Roger Waters went to the Billiard Room and began writing stanzas for what became a song for his new album:

We watched the tragedy unfold We did as we were told We bought and sold It was the greatest show on Earth But then it was over We oohed and aahed We drove our racing cars We ate our last jars of caviar And somewhere out there in the stars A keen-eyed lookout spied a flickering star Our last hurrah

Waters gradually realized the two verses were a requiem for the fragile integrity of the Pink Floyd reign. And yes, tens of thousands of spectators were at that moment crowding arenas to hear a band calling itself Pink Floyd. Yet the most devout fans surely were aware that the whole presentation could not be further in fact or intent from the aims of the idealistic school chums who forged the Pink Floyd Sound.

When a title for his bittersweet new song eventually occurred to Roger Waters, it also seemed an apt name for both his latest solo album and the tragic creative destiny that it summarized. "I didn't know what else to call it," he shrugs, "but Amused to Death."

So I can understand where your interpretation of this interview came from, but it reads to me like Waters came up with these lines and then felt they fit a concept he was already working on.
It is worth my pointing out however that I find myself irritated that some of my favourite lines on this album came from Waters complaining that the band had the temerity to try and exist without him. That's very annoying indeed.

[ZiggyZipgun]

it reads to me like Waters came up with these lines and then felt they fit a concept he was already working on.

Where does it say he was already working on a concept? This was right after his KAOS tour, when he was apparently writing the first iteration of Ca Ira.

[theaussiefloydian]

Where does it say he was already working on a concept? This was right after his KAOS tour, when he was apparently writing the first iteration of Ca Ira.

When a title for his bittersweet new song eventually occurred to Roger Waters, it also seemed an apt name for both his latest solo album and the tragic creative destiny that it summarized.

Implying there was already something he was working on, even if it wasn't much more than a concept.

[ZiggyZipgun]

I know he started recording the album around that time, but I've never seen any mention of which songs were recorded then and which were done later after his second divorce was finalized. "Perfect Sense, Part 2" seems to have the most in common with the title track. He originally told the record label that he would withhold his next album until they dropped Pink Floyd from their roster; it took 19 years but they did eventually move to a different label.

My other point about him very much wanting to pull off a dazzling, large-scale tour like Pink Floyd were then doing is that it is even more hypocritical than usual. For all of his claims of bringing theater to rock'n'roll, and his complaint that larger audiences didn't appreciate it, he would never allow himself to actually stage a show for theaters because the profit margins and bragging rights were also much smaller.

[DarkSideFreak]

Amused to Death is actually a good example of how differently concept albums are treated. OK so he's got the TV blabbering on throughout the album, and some of the songs reference TV but are actually about something else (mostly about war, but also oppression and religion). Some even have nothing to do with the theme ("Three Wishes"). Still, everyone always accepts this as a concept album because he said it is. Other than spreading out "What God Wants" over the album and bracketing it with the same soundscape, what is there to really unify the album musically? Go back to the 70s and you'll find a similar case - Wish You Were Here. WYWH is as much a concept album as AMLOR is but because we've all been told that it's about "absence" (which informed the awesome artwork) we've always accepted that.

When you look at other musicians and bands, you'll see that concepts can indeed be loose or only start to form during an album's gestation period. They don't have to be spelled out in big letters.

Now to our dear mod's point that I'm probably just imagining things... well maybe. I see themes in albums. In fact a lot of albums have a common theme of sorts unifying it, if they are conceived as albums (conceive -> concept). But the lyrical and musical threads on AMLOR, although they are not obvious, are more pronounced than on, say, Brothers in Arms. Or for that matter, any Pink Floyd album prior to Dark Side of the Moon - although the two film soundtracks have elements of conceptuality running through them.

The climax of the title track was actually written in reference to the Momentary Lapse of Reason tour. He then cobbled that together with some other ideas about media and made every effort to turn it into an all-engrossing album - and had enough people bought it, he was prepared to present it as another "rock and roll spectacle" along the lines of that same tour. There must be a more efficient vehicle for these artistic statements than less-than-popular music.

I do feel I need to defend Rog here though. The subject of TV as brainwashing mass entertainment that sort of permeates AtD (as I said above, the concept isn't really as well executed as I wish it was) was lurking in his mind before. It goes back at least to The Wall (Pink watching several TVs at once, something that Syd also did, and then smashing them; it reappears again on side 3) and becomes noticeable on The Final Cut, with one reference right at the start of the album - "was it you? was it me? did I watch too much tv?" and some more in "Not Now John".

Also, AtD was initially conceived as a sequel to Radio KAOS which is also about media.

I have a similar issue with religions, since their creators coincidentally all chose a game of "Chinese whispers"* to announce their existence.

(*had to look up what it was actually called)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNp3XI ... xe&index=8