The Division Bell, want some opinions...

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downinit1
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The Division Bell, want some opinions...

Post by downinit1 »

:? The Division Bell is my favorite PF album, but ALOT of people hate it.... For those of you who dislike it, tell me more indepth why? Maybe i like it so much because it reminds me of Enigma, and I love some of their music... To me, the Division Bell is so DEEP and trancelike, but musically, and lyrically, but more musically. There are DEFINITELY lyrically deeper PF cds out there, like The Wall... :mrgreen:
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Post by Keith Jordan »

The Division Bell was one of the albums that attracted me to Pink Floyd but I came to dislike it somewhat relative to the others as I do not like the electronic direction it took - it is a cheap album. :)
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Post by mosespa »

I have stated before, but will happily do so again...I think the TDB was a step in the right direction for the band to head into after AMLOR.

I like it, but it really doesn't compare to anything before it, lyrically.

I think a lot of the music is particularly good...especially Coming Back To Life, Poles Apart, Lost For Words and High Hopes.

I don't think that it sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as others think.
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Post by downinit1 »

Good point. I guess because I was a teenager in the early 90's, i have a soft spot for that electronic hip hoppity stuff. I was truly IMMERSED in Nine Inch Nails forever, and they have alot of electronic beats. Yes, the Division Bell is what first attracted me to Pink Floyd, then i got The Wall, and it blew my mind, I love em both! 8)
P.S. Yah, Mossy, I too see what you're sayin, I guess Maybe i like some of the lyrics to it because it doesn't take alot of thought to figure them out, they come right out to ya, where as in The Wall, you have to truly LISTEN to what they are sayin, it's like, do you feel like being lazy, and simple and listening to TDB, or do you want to get really f_____ up in the head, and listen to The Wal, or others.... it took me a while and alot of time listening to The Wall before i uncovered most of the layers and understood what they were talking about, and where the story was, oh, and it also helps to watch the movie. :P :mrgreen:
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Post by mosespa »

It's really difficult for me to say this with any kind of objectivity whatsoever because I have spent the last 23 years studying The Wall...but I don't see what's so puzzling about it.

Even before I realized what the whole story was, I knew that there was one there...the lyrics seem to me to be pretty straightforward inasmuch as what each song deals with on it's own. It was putting the songs together in a cohesive whole that threw me for a loop until I saw the movie, but at that time, I still wasn't listening to the album as a whole...just the songs that intrigued me.

Even so, I could still see what each song was about on it's own.

I'd like to know exactly what it is that puzzles people about this album.

Even if you've figured it out, I'd still like to know what any of you had to really sit down and figure out.
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Post by downinit1 »

well, i saw the movie first so... It confused the hell outta me, but I got the gist of it. As for the songs themselves, uh it's hard to explain why they were confusing, um who is yelling, "I've got a little black book with me poems in it"? was that in the movie, becaus if so, i've forgotten who it was. Then, are the people yelling in most of the songs Nazi's, or school teachers, there are songs I haven't REALLY listened to much too. this probably seems very simple minded and all, but i haven't been into this for very long. It's all hard to explain right now. :mrgreen:
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Post by mosespa »

downinit1 wrote:who is yelling, "I've got a little black book with me poems in it"? was that in the movie, becaus if so, i've forgotten who it was. Then, are the people yelling in most of the songs Nazi's, or school teachers, there are songs I haven't REALLY listened to much too. this probably seems very simple minded and all, but i haven't been into this for very long. It's all hard to explain right now. :mrgreen:


I presume what you are referring to is:

(Woman screams outside Pink's hotel window)

Pink: SHUT UP!! Oi, I've got a little black book with me poems in it!!

(Nobody Home begins.)

It's Pink yelling.

The way I take this scene in the story (it's not in the movie, by the way) is that a woman is screaming for whatever reason. Pink, rather than offering assisstance, yells at her to shut up because he is so isolated and desensitized...so self-absorbed, that her problems don't interest him. He's more interested in telling her about his little black book with his poems in it.

As for the people yelling in the songs...there's a crafty bit of work going on here. At the end of "The Show Must Go On," you hear a rock audience chanting "Pink Floyd, Pink Floyd" and then In The Flesh begins. By the end of In The Flesh, the audience is only chanting "Pink Floyd" from the left side of the stereo field.

This is intentional. Think Left-Wing Liberal.

Meanwhile, on the right side of the stereo field (think Right Wing Conservative,) the chanting has become "Hammer, Hammer, Hammer!!"

Thus, Run Like Hell begins. This carries on through Waiting For The Worms...and at the end of The Trial, the chanting has become "Tear Down The Wall...Tear Down The Wall!!"
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Post by Furious »

it doesnt take a genius to figure out that the Wall (appears to be) is about a rock star, who, after reflecting on his past, isolates himself from everyone and everything, then turns to the future, but in the wrong direction.

i got that after listening to it the first time, back in 1997 i think it might have been (yeah i know, I'm too young :p)

its only after listening to it a few times that you begin to understand the intricacies of each song, the reason that songs like Bring the Boys back Home is there (which really doesnt fit into the narrative with a decent sense of flow), and what each song can mean in context with the rest of the album, and without the context of the album.

I tried to write an analytical essay on it, but then i had to go through Year 12, and i stopped. i might still have my notes around if i dig them up
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Post by David Smith »

The first Pink Floyd album i actually paid money for (DSOTM was given to me by my older brother) was TDB.

I know i slate Gilmour's floyd a lot, but this album will hold a place in my heart for some time. Wether it's the genius of verse 2 in Lost For Words (my favourite post Waters Floyd song) or the dynamic flow of High Hopes i feel the album accomplishes so much.

However, although the first half builds up things nicely (the bell ringing in Poles Apart just sounds like a great scene setter) i feel so much more could have been done with much of the second half.

AGDFF, WTIO, TIB, KT and CBTL all leave a lot to be desired in terms of lyrics, tune and atmosphere. The album seems more to be trying to show off Gilmour's vocal range than to show just how far the floyd had moved on since the abysmal AMLOR and in doing so forgets what made floyd so good in the first place. WTIO especially has potentiol but it's poorly executed, totally over blown and just seems like it could have been SO much better.

The album was certainly an improvement upon AMLOR but it lacks the formula of old Floyd classics, and despite some great moments it sinks to deeply in to a sea of session men and production. And come on, would the old floyd have ever sank low enough to do Take It Back and Keep Talking. I think not.

Also, my final rant is the order of the album. WDYWFM? shouldn't have been placed between C1 and PA. The song sounds totally out of place unlike HAC which is done int he same style, but it comes between a deep song of self torture and an epic piece (much like the placing for the songs Money and Not Now John.)

Ultimatly it's a mixed bag that with some work could have been so much more.
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Post by Spinoza »

David Smith wrote:The first Pink Floyd album i actually paid money for (DSOTM was given to me by my older brother) was TDB.



However, although the first half builds up things nicely (the bell ringing in Poles Apart just sounds like a great scene setter) i feel so much more could have been done with much of the second half.

Ultimatly it's a mixed bag that with some work could have been so much more.
Exactly. You all know i defend the current Floyd alot , but i too was in fact in one way a little bit disappointed that they didn't had done more than just putting 11 songs ( centered around a theme ) together. No long pieces like Pigs and Dogs. Although it sounds good, and the lyrics are different from Rogers style, i feel tDB could have been much more .
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The Division Bell, want some opinions...

Post by Feeling Very Pink »

I really like A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Divison Bell.

That I prefer The Piper At The Gates of Dawn, A Saucerful of Secrets, Meddle, The Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall and The Final Cut probably goes without saying, but I don't think there are any particularly crap songs on the last two studio albums.

For me, The Dogs of War, A New Machine and A Great Day For Freedom all verge on... filler? Boring? Something like that.

Having said that, I love The Dogs of War going into the brilliant One Slip (Phil Manzanera's a genius!), and the two parts of A New Machine sandwiching the instrumental delight Terminal Frost (under-rated or WHAT?!) I rather like. Plus, "It's only a lifetime"'s a pretty cool line... Rather cold...

I think Andy Mabbett's summation of A New Machine being "possibly the worst thing ever recorded by Pink Floyd") is... actually, maybe it is. Go on, then. For me, though, it's kind of like Seamus, coming as it does before the masterpiece Echoes. I just really like those tracklistings, for some perverse reason...

I love Learning to Fly, although I prefer the Pulse (sorry, P.U.L.S.E) version - it rocks! One Slip is a great rock song - the bit where Gilmour sings the titular line is sheer triumph, I think. Pity he didn't write the music...

Sorrow has my favourite Gilmour lyric. I even like the programmed drums (oh God, what am I saying?). When the saxophone lets loose on Terminal Frost, the answer is yes please, really, while the Thunder version of On The Turning Away I find quite anthemic. (Speaking of that album, isn't the delay on Gilmour's vocal on Yet Another Movie funny?)

Signs of Life and Cluster One are beautific. What Do You Want From Me is classic Floyd - a commonly held view, I know, perhaps because it's true. Poles Apart is heavenly, Marooned is pretty good. Glad to see it got a Grammy for best rock instrumental in '95. Did they get any other awards?

Take It Back (the "GOD knows I've tried" in the P.U.L.S.E video rocks), Lost For Words (great lyrics) and Coming Back To Life (I don't care if it doesn't go anywhere musically!) also make me nod in agreement.

Fekkin' hell, that was long...
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Post by David Smith »

Ok, i'm in disbeleith. Not because of what you said about the individual albums, but because you said A New Machine wasn't awful.

In all honesty, i thought AMLOR was almost as bad as Radio Kaos. I rarely listen to the album, infact i think i've heard the full album twice, yeah, i liked it that much.

TDB was so much better than AMLOR and i feel that unlike AMLOR it won't be seen as a total disgrace of an album eventually. AMLOR is one of those albums that would have benefitted from being done by a different band.It was far to stadium rock esque and far to periodic. When i hear it i KNOW it came from the 80's era. The music on it is totally dated and unlike TDB it doesn't have any of the classic floyd trademarks that aloowed parts of TDB to sound so good.

And that song Sorrow is possibally the most over rated floyd song ever.

I acn't help but feel TDB was only realeased to save the pink floyd reputation. Imagine a band ending on AMLOR. Because of this fight for the legacy i don't think Pink Floyd should ever release anything again because if it's crap they're then going to have to go out and release another album just so Dave doesn't look so bad by releasing a crap album as the band's finale.

In this respect i do have to feel sorry for Dave, he went out to prove himself to his peers and wether or not it was for money (which i think it was) he knew the risks and set out to make the ebst floyd he could. Unfortunitly he had to folow both roger and Syd, and unfortunitly he has to lie in the glory of these past masters who never have to worry about how people view their pink floyds ever again. because Dave was in worry about how he would be seen i think that's why TDB was released, and the reason it was just a rehash of old ideas was just so people could comment on it being a proper return to form.

Anyway, yeah TDB was much better than AMLOR.
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AMLOR

Post by Feeling Very Pink »

I often think the worst aspect of AMLOR is the sound. It has to be their most un-homogenous album ever, probably because a small country sessioned on it. It's not very coherent, or consistent. I suppose a lot of people wander whether it was worth the good points (Learning to Fly, One Slip, Terminal Frost) - if they even think there were any at all. Perhaps it wasn't? I often fantasize about certain bands restricting their output to a few quality EPs and singles... But that would be stupid... I just can't seem to get that worked up about AMLOR and TDB, is all. (By the way, I love Music From The Film More and Obscured By Clouds as well - Green is the Colour and Wot's... uh the deal being the obvious favourites for me. Ummagumma is the only one I'm "actively" not too keen on, though I love Grantchester Meadows, Several Species... and the live Eugene.)
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Post by mosespa »

Furious wrote:
the reason that songs like Bring the Boys back Home is there (which really doesnt fit into the narrative with a decent sense of flow),


At the end of "Vera," Pink sings "Does anybody else in here feel the way I do?" and then he goes on to tell us how he feels..."Bring The Boys Back Home." He feels that the soldiers (or rock stars or anyone else whose job depends upon travel and being away from home, thus robbing their children of the presence of a parent) should be allowed to go back to their homes to be with their families.

Maybe you don't feel that this is a decent sense of flow, but I think that someone asking if anyone else shares their feelings and then expounding on those feelings IS a decent sense of flow.

Maybe it's just me, though.
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Post by Syd_Roger_Rick_Nick_David »

I like The Division Bell a lot, the only albums I like better are Atom Heart Mother, Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here. Now I love all Pink Floyd's albums but these 4 just do it for me the most. Like the albums are like put together the best.