Frank Zappa

[olzen]

Again, I don't think it's that simple. If the single albums were solely the work of the record company, why would Frank choose to reissue those on CD rather than Läther? He had the tapes and the rights to them. The "Panter-uglies" were long deleted, mind you. Why not just replace them with Läther?

Still, he chose to not only reissue the single albums, but also tamper with the mixes. If he had to do any tampering, why not use that energy on restoring and remastering the Läther tapes? And of course, the CD's also feature the Gary Panter-artwork. If may have been unauthorized before, but it certainly wasn't when the reissues came out. And again, I don't think he was trying to live up to what his fans were expecting. He'd already messed up WOIFTM and CWRATJ in the name of artistic liberty. And that was one thing he would never give up, I think.

This page explains the conundrum a lot better than I do. Check it out, it's a fascinating read. And just for the record, I'm not arguing that Läther is not a good album. In fact, it's likely my favourite Zappa album. But I do think it was largely constructed as a "plan B" and not as the original artistic vision as the Zappa Family Trust would have us believe.

[Vlad The Impaler]

Again, I don't think it's that simple. If the single albums were solely the work of the record company, why would Frank choose to reissue those on CD rather than Läther? He had the tapes and the rights to them. The "Panter-uglies" were long deleted, mind you. Why not just replace them with Läther?

Still, he chose to not only reissue the single albums, but also tamper with the mixes. If he had to do any tampering, why not use that energy on restoring and remastering the Läther tapes? And of course, the CD's also feature the Gary Panter-artwork. If may have been unauthorized before, but it certainly wasn't when the reissues came out. And again, I don't think he was trying to live up to what his fans were expecting. He'd already messed up WOIFTM and CWRATJ in the name of artistic liberty. And that was one thing he would never give up, I think.

This page explains the conundrum a lot better than I do. Check it out, it's a fascinating read. And just for the record, I'm not arguing that Läther is not a good album. In fact, it's likely my favourite Zappa album. But I do think it was largely constructed as a "plan B" and not as the original artistic vision as the Zappa Family Trust would have us believe.

All I know is how Frank told it.

As for messing with mixes....I more often than not wished he'd left well enough alone.

[danielcaux]

All the records had been in the works for years but there were no particular plans to release them either as a 4 disc album or as separate records (Zappa used to record music ALL the time with no clear release agenda as motivation). The only record that was planned for release was the double live in NY one, and Frank had been working too on an yet to be named orchestral album. There were some censorship problems with the release of Zappa in NY that led to Frank wanting to leave the record company, so he gave them 4 albums worth of masters so he could be released from his contract, but the company rejected that plan, with even someone joking about if they were supposed to release all the music as one album! Zappa replied "you know what? I might aswell do exactly that!", he then worked most of the songs, and some new ones, into a whole album project, went to other record companies hoping to release Läther through them, the old record company sued him and the new record companies, so Zappa went to a radio station and played the whole thing so people could at least listen to it. Meanwhile the old record company released the masters as four separate and thematically coherent albums with crappy comic style covers, that I personally don't think are that crappy when compared with some other Zappa approved covers of the 80s and 90s. Or something like that.


Oh yes, I forgot about "Sleep Dirt" real original Zappa approved title being "Hot Rats III"! And Zappa was quite pissed about the old record company releasing it with the dirty sounding title and ugly "piece of crap" cover instead of the planned third sequel sex-appeal. So really, it seems like the Läther concept was kind of an afterthought.

Hot Rats II was Waka Jawaka.

Does any of you know where I can find a vinyl rip of the original Sleep Dirt? The one without the female vocals? I've got both Lather and Sleep Dirt, but the Sleep Dirt instrumental tracks are heavily edited on Lather, and on Sleep Dirt they are complete but have the not so pleasing vocals over them. I want to listen to Hot Rats III as it was originally intended!

[olzen]

Agree with you on all counts, danielcaux.

[edited out this section; I've sent you a PM instead.]

[Idisaffect]

Thematically coherent? Okay. I guess Let Me Take You To The Beach is an extension of the annoying Greggery Peccary. And why isn't Revised Music For Guitar And Orchestra on Orchestral Favorites?

Anyway, here's an interview excerpt in which Zappa comments on many other famous guitarists.....

Interviewer:
And the other part of the same article is going to be your thoughts on some of your contemporaries and your people, if you don't mind. People like Chuck Berry?

Frank Zappa:
Chuck Berry? Well, I used to like Chuck Berry when I was in High School. Songs like "Havana Mill" and "Wee Wee Hours" which were the flip sides of the hits that he had - the more bluesy things. His main innovation besides that duck walk choreography was the multiple string guitar solos - the lines were harmonizing because he was playing on two strings at once. There was another guitar player who used to do that named Jimmy Nolan who I had a lot of respect for.

Interviewer:
B.B King?

Frank Zappa:
I don't like B.B. I saw him on television before I went on this tour and he was still blue.

Interviewer:
Oh yeah, I've seen him recently and I thought he was amazing. Keith Richard?

Frank Zappa:
I don't know anything about Keith Richard.

Interviewer:
Jimi Hendrix?

Frank Zappa:
I knew Jimi and I think that the best thing you could say about Jimi was: there was a person who shouldn't use drugs.

Interviewer:
John McLaughlin?

Frank Zappa:
I met John. I think he's a great guitar player and I think that he's probably done a lot to educate American audiences to some aspects of Eastern music that they wouldn't have come into contact with before. We did a tour with McLaughlin and old Mahavishnu, we did 11 concerts with them.

Interviewer:
Lowell George?

Frank Zappa:
There's another guy who shouldn't use drugs.

Interviewer:
Eric Clapton?

Frank Zappa:
I know Eric, I haven't seen him in years and years. There's another guy who shouldn't use drugs.

Interviewer:
Jeff Beck?

Frank Zappa:
One of my favorite guitar players on the planet. From a melodic standpoint and just in terms of the conception of what he plays, he's fabulous. I like Jeff.

Interviewer:
Rory Gallagher?

Frank Zappa:
We worked 2 jobs with Rory Gallagher on this tour and, uh,......[long pause]... he's still playing the blues.

Interviewer:
Jimmy Page?

Frank Zappa:
I don't know anything about Jimmy Page.

Interviewer:
Peter Green?

Frank Zappa:
I don't know him either.

Interviewer:
Jerry Garcia?

Frank Zappa:
We did one concert with Garcia on this tour but we were the opening act and I didn't see any of his set.

Interviewer:
Pete Townshend?

Frank Zappa:
I've met Pete but I don't know what I can say about his guitar playing.

Interviewer:
Robert Fripp?

Frank Zappa:
I've never heard a Robert Fripp record.

Interviewer:
Ritchie Blackmore?

Frank Zappa:
I have met Ritchie too, and..... I'm not really familiar with the work of these people because you have to understand I'm not a pop consumer and I don't listen to a lot of these.

Interviewer:
[What do you listen to?]

Frank Zappa:
Well, what I do is I take cassettes with me on the road because sometimes you're sitting in the hotel room and you just want to listen to something, but what I take is not rock and roll. I like Chopin, I have Purcell, I have Webern, I have Varese, I have Bulgarian music. I don't listen to Rock and roll.

Interviewer:
Yes, um, Carlos Santana?

Frank Zappa:
We worked with Carlos Santana on Cologne in 1980 or 81 and it was a similar situation. We did two shows at the sport palace in Cologne. They opened the first show, we closed it. Then we opened the second show and they closed it so I never heard him play.

Interviewer:
As you said you don't listen to popular music so I don't expect you know Eddie Van Halen.

Frank Zappa:
I do know Eddie. He comes over to the house because he hangs out with my son.

Interviewer:
I see. But do you know him as a guitar player?

Frank Zappa:
Oh yeah. He and my son play together and he's fabulous, but there's another guy who shouldn't use drugs.

Interviewer:
I presume you don't know The Edge - from U2?

Frank Zappa:
The Edge?

Interviewer:
Yeah.

Frank Zappa:
No.

[danielcaux]

Thematically coherent?

Yep, in musical terms, not lyrical or conceptual.

Sleep Dirt: mostly Jazzy/Jazz-fusion instrumentals. With some very guitar oriented passages. Like Hot Rats.

Orchestral Favorites: orchestral compositions, all recorded at Royce Hall in 1975.

Studio Tan: This one is more in line with the "normal" 70s albums by Zappa (', Overnite-Sensation). A blend of pop/rock traditions and some avant-garde thrown in.

Zappa In New York: live album with new songs and reinterprataions of old standards, with some studio overdubs. Kinda like Roxy.

[Idisaffect]

Right. Makes sense.

Zappa has never heard a Robert Fripp record. I thought that was interesting, though not surprising.

[danielcaux]

Interesting interview. I wonder if he really didn't know anything about Keith Richards or Page, or if he was just being dismissive because of the huge popularity and comercialization of both bands.


....and "The Edge?"

Fncking priceless!

[olzen]

Definitely makes for some interesting reading. It's fun to note that while Frank was always on the vanguard musically, his taste was oddly idiosyncratic. Doo-wop and Johnny "Guitar" Watson was probably the closest he got to rock'n'roll. Though I do recall an interview with him later in his career where he mentions liking the guitar work of Yngwie Malmsteen (!)

I greatly admire and respect most of the guitarists brought up in that interview, but what is The Edge doing there? I can see why Frank denied knowing anything about him. I shall let Bill Bailey demonstrate why The Edge is possibly only second to Kurt Cobain when it comes to overrated guitarists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Go2DK9VtQ

[Idisaffect]

Interesting interview. I wonder if he really didn't know anything about Keith Richards or Page

With all of those groupies he hung out with I think it would have been hard for him to avoid hearing the stones and zeppelin.

I shall let Bill Bailey demonstrate why The Edge is possibly only second to Kurt Cobain when it comes to overrated guitarists:

Haha. I've done that same kind of demonstration to explan why The Edge is not very impressive. And it was probably Eno or some other producer who set his signature sound up for him in the studio one day.
Right on, Bill Bailey, whoever you are.

I've gotta say, I never knew anyone who rated Kurt Cobain as a great guitarist. He gets credit for his vocals and his ability to write catchy, melodic vocal hooks. And he can scream in tune with the best of them. No one I know ever claimed him as a great guitar player. Still, he's better than The Edge. If you're gonna call yourself The Edge, I think you should play with some edge. The Edge is the perfect example of someone being a rock star (poser) first and a musician last.

Zappa opened for Jerry Garcia. That must have been an interesting mix of fans.

[Stephen]

Does The Edge himself claim to be a great guitarist ? It's not necessarily all about technical ability but having that certain something that appeals, and I for one love the sound of the Edge's playing, especially on their three albums, Achtung Baby, the Joshua Tree and Zooropa, irrespective of how technically efficient he might be...which can be pretty boring and musically uninvolving in my opinion.

Zappa was a clever guy and good at making provocative statements.

[The Gunner's Dream]

Does The Edge himself claim to be a great guitarist ? .

The fact that he named himself "The Edge" should tell you how pretentious he is.

[Stephen]

I thought it was Bono who named him that, initially because of his angular features.

[snifferdog]

I thought he used to hang around at the end of his front lawn. Oh sorry...that'd be the hedge (Nice link Olzen)

[my breakfast.]

Does The Edge himself claim to be a great guitarist ? .

The fact that he named himself "The Edge" should tell you how pretentious he is.

That is a nickname to do with his facial structure.

I don't think The Edge deserves such a hard time. If nothing else he was the one that utilised effects first. Before then guitar effects were either an awkward squawk (wah) or some other fuzz or echo stuff. Gilmour made inroads. Check out some of the guitar parts in Echoes for example.

I guess it comes from the same mentality that thinks that Duane Allman is a guitar god. You cannot possibly be a good guitarist if you use effects. Yawn.