Punk roots

Talk about any music other than Pink Floyd/Solo Stuff
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dogs_pigs_n_sheep
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Punk roots

Post by dogs_pigs_n_sheep »

You know "The Nile Song"? I think it is punk rock.

Before I listened to Pink Floyd I went through a phase of being a "punker". This would have been somewhere very close to 1980. More like 82. Any way, the one thing I ran into time and time again was the question of what was punk. I listened to mainly hardcore California bands.

People would say The B52s were punk. That would make us punks get angry since we thought of them as newwave. We were such posers. Suburban kids, living in expensive houses, and trying to shock adults.

Anyway, for anyone interested in answering-

Do you know of a music defined as punk?

Do you like any punk music?

Who do you think is punk music?

Is there a modern punk music?

Who do you think is trying be punk-like as a gimmick?

I still listen to it from time to time. The stuff I love the most was political or socially stinging. The best band was the Dead Kennedys. I think the skateboarding scene is the keeper of modern day punk. And I'd say Greenday and the like have modernized the rough sounds of punk to make parts of it pop.
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Post by Pugs on the Wing »

Before I got into Punk, I was into Classic Rock...60s, Psych, British Invasion. When I got into punk, I felt I had to re-learn a lot of my musical aesthetics. Or maybe they were just trends. And it angered me, because I felt pressured by those I hung out with to give up a lot of the music I *had* been getting into (i.e., classic rock) before I was so rudely interrupted by punk, in order to fit into "the new music society" or whatever I understood it to be on a non-verbal level. One of those casualties, unfortunately, was Pink Floyd. You could *not* like Pink Floyd (except for Syd Barrett era) and like The Sex Pistols, for obvious reasons.

As Roger says in Pompeii, "The only thing that matters is whether it moves you or not."

And in the end, all the categories, labels, musical genres, etc. are really irrelevant. All that is left is the music. That's all that matters.

After I went through a very non-musical time in my life, distancing myself from anything and everything, I was then later able to appreciate things I'd thought I'd left behind forever back in the 80s, both punk and classic rock. There are punk bands that I take with me from that era, whether it be in physical form, i.e., rare 7" vinyl that I moved out here with me because it was transportable (The Damned is a good example of that...I was a huge fan), or punk bands that I never ever left because they were some of the first things I got back on CD when I started buying music again (Proto punks The Stooges and The Velvet Underground), or things that will probably be just a good memory (The Clash at Red Rocks in 1982), or those that I admire (Jello Biafra) who stand for things bigger than music.

Currently, I really have no desire to listen to those bands (except the Stooges & VU--but they're also "classic") anymore. Maybe I will in another 10 years--who knows? There was some good stuff undoubtedly.

My fave 70s punk bands were:
The Damned
The Dead Kennedys
The Clash
The Ramones
The Sex Pistols
Siouxsie and the Banshees
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mosespa
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Re: Punk roots

Post by mosespa »

dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:You know "The Nile Song"? I think it is punk rock.
Never really thought of it that way. I actually considered it's driving beat and sensually oriented lyrics more consistent with heavy metal.

The funny thing is that there seems to be a consensus among music historians that punk and metal are sibling musical forms. Both arose from adolescent male alienation and discontent. Both attempted to deal with lyrical topics other than romance (although neither has been shy about dealing with sexuality...although the punk faction cliche is that punks respect women more than metalheads.)

I have a book, published in '83 or so, called "The International Encyclopedia of Hard Rock and Heavy Metal." Their listing of Floyd mentions how fans of Heavy Metal are drawn to the heavy, plodding tempos of Pink Floyd.

Once upon a time, Metal was about slow grooves more so than sheer speed. Punks ran on amphetamines...so did their music.

Thrash Metal combines elements of each.

But, to return to the original point of this section (although on a bit of a side track) I've always felt that "The Gold, It's In The..." is another "metal" song...however, it's anti-greed lyrical tone might also qualify it as a "punk" song.

:mrgreen:
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Before I listened to Pink Floyd I went through a phase of being a "punker". This would have been somewhere very close to 1980. More like 82. Any way, the one thing I ran into time and time again was the question of what was punk. I listened to mainly hardcore California bands.

People would say The B52s were punk. That would make us punks get angry since we thought of them as newwave. We were such posers. Suburban kids, living in expensive houses, and trying to shock adults.
I discovered New Wave music around the same time I got my first PF album (The Wall, of course.) I never considered it anomalous to like both...I also liked KISS, Jethro Tull, The Beatles, Styx and Foreigner. I really liked "Long Distance Runaround" by Yes...although I thought it was Supertramp.

At the time, I only knew of two divisions in music..."Rock" and "Not Rock." I had bands I loved and bands I loathed within Rock music...but I didn't dislike bands based upon the variation of rock they played. I had a Leif Garrett single and wanted (but never got) a particular Bay City Rollers single.

They sat in between my KISS and Beatles singles.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Anyway, for anyone interested in answering-
:twisted:
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Do you know of a music defined as punk?
Yes...in a manner of speaking. To me, Punk Rock is a music for the "common man." It's a "basic" music, meaning it doesn't have a lot of frills. It's not about virtuosity...in fact, you might say it's the anti-thesis of virtuosity.

It's also a modern form of "folk" music...as is rap. It's music about the enviroments in which the performers find themselves...they're writing about what they see and what they think about it.

That, to me, is the essence of "punk." It's all about keeping it real.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Do you like any punk music?
Sure. I like Anarchy In The U.K. by The Sex Pistols. I like songs by The Ramones, The Dead Milkmen, Violent Femmes, Nirvana, Lou Reed and several others.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Who do you think is punk music?
See above. There are many others, too, but I'm pretty fried right now.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Is there a modern punk music?
Okay...I'm going to say yes. But it's not mainstream, so you might not have heard of any of the same "new punk" bands that I have. Most of these "new punk" bands are truly using the DIY ethic that supposedly originated at the birth of punk...so, they're pretty local.

Fugazi are (I think) a good example of a "true" punk band. They are self-contained and keep CD and ticket prices within the reach of the average, alienated teenager...yet they are also known on a national scale.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:Who do you think is trying be punk-like as a gimmick?
Good Charlotte is an example of this, to me. They are a power pop band, their clothes (and mascara) come from Hot Topic and if they weren't playing "music" they would probably be skateboarding around their upper middle class neighborhoods where two parents (even if only "step-parents") reside in each home and the "mother figure" may not even HAVE to have a job...she just makes sure she's in her childs life as a positive role model...sorry, got off on a rant, there.

I'm sure you see where I'm going with that. Any band you can think of who would fit that description and call themselves "punk" probably are not.

They're glam.
dogs_pigs_n_sheep wrote:I still listen to it from time to time. The stuff I love the most was political or socially stinging. The best band was the Dead Kennedys. I think the skateboarding scene is the keeper of modern day punk. And I'd say Greenday and the like have modernized the rough sounds of punk to make parts of it pop.
I disagree with you on one small point here...I think the skateboarding scene might be one of several ways of keeping modern punk alive, but they also embrace other permuatations of "punk" as well as entirely different forms of music. Since it became a "scene" it HAS to embrace other things in order to survive as a "scene."

I have a two cassette collection called "No More Cocoons" by Jello Biafra. A collection of spoken word performances (including his brilliant "Why I'm Glad The Space Shuttle Blew Up." Very enlightening, that was.)

Now, THAT was punk.

To me, "punk" is about bands "making" their own albums and selling them themselves at "hall" shows which they promote themselves through handbills and word of mouth. They believe so much in what they're doing that they're willing to do it for little or even no reward.

The music is it's own reward.

Have I pontificated enough, you think?
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Post by princessDungan74D »

punk is not what you were or what you listen to its a state of being
GC, Sum-41 and Simple Plan are not punk bands
their boy bands IMHO
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Re: Punk roots

Post by Pugs on the Wing »

mosespa wrote:if they weren't playing "music" they would probably be skateboarding around their upper middle class neighborhoods where two parents (even if only "step-parents") reside in each home and the "mother figure" may not even HAVE to have a job...she just makes sure she's in her childs life as a positive role model...sorry, got off on a rant, there.
Although I appreciate what you're saying in your rant, is it a prerequisite that all good punks have to come from broken homes? Intact families can be pretty eff-ed up too (even if the parents are in denial about it), which can lead to some pretty heavy teenage angst and post-adolescent disillusionment! And even if you have a good family, maybe you're pissed off by the culture around you. I've heard some punks that express those sentiments, that their own family is OK, but it's other things, the government, big business, other (materialistic, idiotic, insert disparaging adjective here) families that have to make it bad and screw it up for everyone else.
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Re: Punk roots

Post by mosespa »

Pugs on the Wing wrote: Although I appreciate what you're saying in your rant, is it a prerequisite that all good punks have to come from broken homes?
Good call, Pugs.

No...it's not a pre-requisite, just a nasty generalization.
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Post by princessDungan74D »

I grow up in a rich family but my life is far from perfect. I had a lot of stuff that happened that I will notopen up to. S I understand what it is to suffer.
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Post by David Smith »

Libby74D wrote:punk is not what you were or what you listen to its a state of being
GC, Sum-41 and Simple Plan are not punk bands
their boy bands IMHO
I reckon the sex pistols were a boy band to and so was were many of the punk acts of the 70's that sold based on a false image. They sol records through arrogance and "look at me" attitudes rather than any form of musical integrity so i'd call that what a boyband does
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Re: Punk roots

Post by ObscuredEchoes »

Mosespa said:
" ...and wanted (but never got) a particular Bay City Rollers single."


***S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y-NIGHT!!!***
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Post by mosespa »

Yep...that's the one.

:oops: