New David Gilmour album!

All discussion related specifically to David Gilmour.
kjek1
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:46 am

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by kjek1 »

danielcaux wrote:That's the problem, Gilmour is a really really great musician that during the past 30 years has also been trying to pretend that he's an actual songwriter too. Problem is, he's just not. After Pink Floyd he should have teamed up with some talented songwriter and start to attach his great solos and guitar work and production skills to some actual good songs. Too bad his hurt ego and grudge against Roger Waters led him in another direction, that of trying to prove to the rest of the world that he, and not his ex-bandmate, was the creative force behind Pink Floyd. Truth is, as their solo albums has proved, that in order to make good music he needed Roger (or some other strong willed bandmate) as much as Roger needed him...

Oh well, that's old news I guess.
Sounds like you have a grudge against Dave. He's a perfectly capable songwriter, his solo efforts have done fantastically well for a guy who isn't a songwriter eh. For me personally High Hopes is better than anything Roger's written since 1979 (near 40 years ago).

He might not be near Roger's level as a lyricist and he certainly isn't anywhere near as interesting as Roger in what he sings about, but he can still get by. Also don't let your grudge confuse you into thinking Dave was merely out to prove he was the creative force when in reality, it was more likely a case that Dave simply wanted to continue making music with his band regardless of Roger's departure. In the making of the Dark Side of the Moon DVD Dave says "Roger was our pushing driving force", so while you're suggesting Dave's some arrogant bastard looking for the glory, he's blatantly not and this is confirmed by what he's said on film, so let's not go down the flathead route of making shite up to suit our own individual agendas.

By the way, Dave' s tickets in 2006 read "The voice and guitar of Pink Floyd", Roger's tickets read "The creative genius of Pink Floyd", that doesn't really fit in with your agenda.

Only one man had a hurt ego, and that was the man who tried to destory the band altogether and the man who whinged about playing to half empty arena's while his ex band-mates filled football stadiums. Dave's a humble guy, claimed he isn't particularly good with his hands, jokingly says on his recently documentary that he "plays a lot of instruments very badly" when the presenter notes that he plays most of the instruments himself on his new album. Meantime Roger is telling us all how "Amused to death" is flawless.

Not trying to sound like a prick, it's just that I'm well aware a lot of people don't particularly like Gilmour for carrying on with Pink Floyd and I can see right through those people, but a lot of what's been said is nonsense and complete fantasy. Don't worry though I'll always be here to keep you right.
User avatar
danielcaux
Supreme Judge!
Supreme Judge!
Posts: 2546
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:25 am
Location: Abya Yala

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by danielcaux »

Hahaha, you are the one who's trying to reduce this to a silly Gilmour vs. Waters debate constantly comparing one's work to the other's. And you are clearly coming through as a Gilmour fanboy in the process ;)

I don't hold a grudge against David, I'm just a realist, the Pink Floyd war was just a huge battle of egos between Waters and Gimlour in the 80s, and after Gilmour legally, and commercially, won the battle, he's ego and pride grew exponentially with it. Not being able to notice and recognize that in all the interviews he has given through out the 90s and 00s where he touches on that subject and basically says that "he was the reason behind all Pink Floyd songs sounding any good", or something along those lines, just shows how delusional some of Gilmour fanboys can be...

But don't worry, is not like I even care about that, I just accept it as a fact of life. :smt102

And "Dave is a humble guy"?? You are kidding right??? Are you even aware of the concept of "false modesty"???

And no sir, Gilmour has never proven to be a decent songwriter. Not at all. High Hopes and On An Island are both great songs, yeah, but, most of his repertoire is clearly NOT those TWO songs. The bulk of his work is generic at best, from his first album to the last one.

But still, I feel grateful for those two songs. So, a big thank you to Gilmour for that.
User avatar
mastaflatch
Knife
Knife
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:17 am
Gender: Male
Location: québec

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by mastaflatch »

Yeah, Gilmour doesn't have an impressive body of work as far as songwriting goes but I'd pick a few more than those 2 you mentionned:

Fat Old Sun
I Can't Breathe Anymore
Murder
Near the End
On the Turning Away
Yet Another Movie
High Hopes
Smile
On An Island
A Pocketful Of Stones
Louder Than Words
A Boat Lies Waiting
Dancing Right In Front Of Me
In Any Tongue
The Girl In the Yellow Dress

I mean, I could add some wonderful instrumentals there too. It's some good to pretty good stuff either way. Less than a handful of those begin to scrape the emotional level of the best stuff Pink Floyd did when Waters was still there or with Syd. Waters is a much more ebulient, heart-on-his-sleeve being and that makes for some moving art if you can get past his musical shortcomings. I'm not sure there'd be as many post-1983 Waters songs that I'd listen to in a heartbeat though. They sure had this strange chemistry together.
kjek1
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:46 am

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by kjek1 »

danielcaux wrote:Hahaha, you are the one who's trying to reduce this to a silly Gilmour vs. Waters debate constantly comparing one's work to the other's. And you are clearly coming through as a Gilmour fanboy in the process ;)

I don't hold a grudge against David, I'm just a realist, the Pink Floyd war was just a huge battle of egos between Waters and Gimlour in the 80s, and after Gilmour legally, and commercially, won the battle, he's ego and pride grew exponentially with it. Not being able to notice and recognize that in all the interviews he has given through out the 90s and 00s where he touches on that subject and basically says that "he was the reason behind all Pink Floyd songs sounding any good", or something along those lines, just shows how delusional some of Gilmour fanboys can be...

But don't worry, is not like I even care about that, I just accept it as a fact of life. :smt102

And "Dave is a humble guy"?? You are kidding right??? Are you even aware of the concept of "false modesty"???

And no sir, Gilmour has never proven to be a decent songwriter. Not at all. High Hopes and On An Island are both great songs, yeah, but, most of his repertoire is clearly NOT those TWO songs. The bulk of his work is generic at best, from his first album to the last one.

But still, I feel grateful for those two songs. So, a big thank you to Gilmour for that.
Come on that's not very fair, you're just annoyed that you've been caught out. If you want to take pot shots at the guy be more subtle about it and you won't be called out. Don't be a smart arse and take snide digs and then accuse me of trying to turn it into a Waters vs Gilmour debate for addressing it. Call me a fanboy as much as you want, I'm pretty fair and realistic and my own judgement is based off of fact. Not lazy assumptions which you and a few others are often guilty of.

Where are these interviews then? I don't remember him saying he made Pink Floyd sound good, though he definitely played a significant part, if he even hinted at that maybe it was a response to some of Roger's soundbytes about him being the brains and the rest singing HIS songs (as he likes to refer to any track with his lyrics on it).

Why would I be kidding? He's never shown much of an ego at all. In your strange mind you're calling it false modesty, like it's all an act, and based on what? Seriously tell us what you're basing that on? I think it's another lazy assumption stemming purely from the fact you're not keen on the guy if I'm completely honest.

The last bit is a matter of opion I suppose, but I think he's written far more than 2 good songs. I wouldn't even hold On An Island up there with his best. For me Yellow Dress really is the definition of generic, it's one big cliche, but you liked it so maybe it means something different to you. It depends what you measure him against too, if you're merely basing it on his lyrical content vs Roger's then that's a waste of time because he's just not got and never will have Roger's knack from that sort of thing.

I think I'm quite fair in my assessment of the two main songwriters (post Syd) in PF, I think Roger's a lyrical genius and there are few to match him, he's got an aggressive streak that was vital to the band's best work. But I usually associate fanboy/fangirl behaviour with people like yourself who tend to take sides and then make up nonsense to downplay one or the other. "Gilmour surrounds himself with yes men" and "false modesty" being two great examples of this, airy fairy assumptions plucked from thin air with little evidence or justification for either.

The only reason I'm regularly in the position of defending Gilmour, is because he's regularly targetted by Roger 'fanboys', the forums choc full of them. Sorry but if you say something which to my knowledge is crap, then I'll flag it up, and keep flagging it up until you actually provide a fair justification for it. What i posted previously dispels some of what you said, you've conveniently ignored it, that's fine, but what's the point of getting into it at all if you're not going to face up to it :)
kjek1
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:46 am

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by kjek1 »

mastaflatch wrote:Yeah, Gilmour doesn't have an impressive body of work as far as songwriting goes but I'd pick a few more than those 2 you mentionned:

Fat Old Sun
I Can't Breathe Anymore
Murder
Near the End
On the Turning Away
Yet Another Movie
High Hopes
Smile
On An Island
A Pocketful Of Stones
Louder Than Words
A Boat Lies Waiting
Dancing Right In Front Of Me
In Any Tongue
The Girl In the Yellow Dress

I mean, I could add some wonderful instrumentals there too. It's some good to pretty good stuff either way. Less than a handful of those begin to scrape the emotional level of the best stuff Pink Floyd did when Waters was still there or with Syd. Waters is a much more ebulient, heart-on-his-sleeve being and that makes for some moving art if you can get past his musical shortcomings. I'm not sure there'd be as many post-1983 Waters songs that I'd listen to in a heartbeat though. They sure had this strange chemistry together.
Roger's written quite a few great lyrics since leaving Floyd, it's that very few sound any good in song.
Flathead
Knife
Knife
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Flathead »

mastaflatch wrote:Yeah, Gilmour doesn't have an impressive body of work as far as songwriting goes but I'd pick a few more than those 2 you mentionned:

Fat Old Sun
I Can't Breathe Anymore
Murder
Near the End
On the Turning Away
Yet Another Movie
High Hopes
Smile
On An Island
A Pocketful Of Stones
Louder Than Words
A Boat Lies Waiting
Dancing Right In Front Of Me
In Any Tongue
The Girl In the Yellow Dress

I mean, I could add some wonderful instrumentals there too. It's some good to pretty good stuff either way. Less than a handful of those begin to scrape the emotional level of the best stuff Pink Floyd did when Waters was still there or with Syd. Waters is a much more ebulient, heart-on-his-sleeve being and that makes for some moving art if you can get past his musical shortcomings. I'm not sure there'd be as many post-1983 Waters songs that I'd listen to in a heartbeat though. They sure had this strange chemistry together.

That's a rather unimpressive list.

And "Smile" sounds like Gilmour pretending to be Clapton.
Follix
Knife
Knife
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:04 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Follix »

^ Let's see...

My 10 favorites Floyd Songs...

1) Comfortably Numb (Waters,Gilmour)
2) SOYCD (Waters, Wright, Gilmour)
3) Time (Waters, Wright, Gilmour, Mason)
4) Dogs (Gilmour,Waters)
5) Echoes (Waters, Wright, Gilmour, Mason)
6) Us and Them (Wright/Waters)
7) High Hopes (Gilmour)
8) WYWH (Waters, Gilmour)
9) Pigs (Waters)
10) Hey You (Waters)

Ok so those are my picks, it's also objectively most of the bands biggest success... So out of these 10 songs only 2 are solo Waters. And I will repeat it again, I am certain ''Pigs'' wouldn't sound anything close without Gilmour and Wright's input.

My top 5 is I believe, the best songs from every album during their prolific era... And surprise surprise, Gilmour is there everywhere just like Waters... My point is that they did better music together than alone. But I prefer Gilmour led Floyd or Gilmour solo stuff to Waters solo stuff and The Final Cut.

Don't take me wrong, Waters did some great song alone like ''Money'', ''Brain Damage'', ''Cigar''', ''Machine'', ''Another Brick'' but I pretty much put these songs in the same category that ''Sorrow'', ''Learning to Fly'', ''On The Turning Away'', ''Coming Back to Life'' or even ''In Any Tongue''.
kjek1
Hammer
Hammer
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:46 am

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by kjek1 »

Sorrow, On the turning away, Yet another Movie, Keep talking and Lost for words are brilliant tracks. Instrumentals like Cluster one and Marooned are fantastic too.
Flathead
Knife
Knife
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Flathead »

Kjek gets so worked up and emotional.
Flathead
Knife
Knife
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Flathead »

Follix wrote: Don't take me wrong, Waters did some great song alone like ''Money'', ''Brain Damage'', ''Cigar''', ''Machine'', ''Another Brick'' but I pretty much put these songs in the same category that ''Sorrow'', ''Learning to Fly'', ''On The Turning Away'', ''Coming Back to Life'' or even ''In Any Tongue''.

Wow. Do you like Dream Theater, too?
Follix
Knife
Knife
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:04 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Follix »

^ No.

My point was most best Floyd songs were cowritten, but it might be a matter of taste. Can't stand Waters solo stuff tho.
Flathead
Knife
Knife
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Flathead »

Waters songwriting has been terrible since TFC.

At that point he needed to go back to CWTAE and Granchester Meadows. But he didn't have the self-awareness of a Radiohead.

As much as I fault David's post-Wall execution, he was right. The band needed to get back to the Meddle/WYWH sound. And on Cluster One, Poles Apart, and High Hopes, he absolutely nailed it.

I have no idea, none why the other poster referenced that terrible list These are the Gilmour post-Wall masterpieces. And Rick Wright played a big part.


Keep Talking is terrible, BTW. It sounds like a AMLOR reject, and cheese techno. The background singers are terrible, and just as punishing and over the top as the ones on Amused to Death.


One of the reasons Animals is so good is it balances out the lyrics with experimentalism and exploration. It also jettisons the background singers.
User avatar
mastaflatch
Knife
Knife
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:17 am
Gender: Male
Location: québec

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by mastaflatch »

There's absolutely no contest as to who are Floyd's best songwriters. Not at all. Seriously. Barrett is up there, among the best ever. Roger Waters in his prime is a top-tier but just under the absolutely raw talents of Barrett's category. Wright and Gilmour just don't stand a chance in that department and they won't go down in history as great songwriters but great musicians. That doesn't mean they never wrote anything good but to be amongst the best of the crop, you have to sustain a high quality output for a good while and push your artfrom towards unexplored and/or unexpected territories. I hope nobody here will say that Gilmour fits that description (as a songwriter) with a straight face. And to say something like "alright Gilmour is this or that but Waters is worse since he went solo" doesn't make Gilmour any better, stoopid.
Follix
Knife
Knife
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:04 pm

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by Follix »

^ I don't agree here...

Waters is the best writer but I take Gilmour over Barrett any day... I mean he wrote ''Dogs'', ''Comfortably Numb'' and ''High Hopes'' without even crediting his importance in other track he cowrote like ''Echoes'', ''Time'', ''Shine On'' and ''WYWH''.

I never got the Syd craze, it was great psychedelic music but far from classic rock's finest...
User avatar
mastaflatch
Knife
Knife
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:17 am
Gender: Male
Location: québec

Re: New David Gilmour album!

Post by mastaflatch »

Follix wrote:^ I don't agree here...

Waters is the best writer but I take Gilmour over Barrett any day... I mean he wrote ''Dogs'', ''Comfortably Numb'' and ''High Hopes'' without even crediting his importance in other track he cowrote like ''Echoes'', ''Time'', ''Shine On'' and ''WYWH''.

I never got the Syd craze, it was great psychedelic music but far from classic rock's finest...
I'm pretty sure that Gilmour himself would laugh at this but you're in your own right.
Of course, not everybody will enjoy listening to Syd Barrett on a regular basis since it's not some pre-digested crap like the one that's fed to the masses for vulgar consumption. Syd wasn't either riding on easily recognizable trademarks in order to comfort his audience into buying half-assed self-tributes. He was building from scratch and his references were way more older than the ones Waters and Gilmour rehash most of the time.
It's one thing to say that "Syd isn't my cup of tea" but to downplay his SONGWRITING talent in favor of David Gilmour's of all people shows how the "great unwashed" has been numbed to death by the commercial aspects of music. It's sad and pathetic.