Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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NPF News story

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AIDA REFUGEE CAMP, West Bank — The legendary rocker and co-founder of Pink Floyd, Roger Waters, says he would give a concert in a flash if Israel's West Bank wall is torn down.

Roger Waters made the promise on Tuesday 2nd June 2009 during a visit to a Palestinian refugee camp that is hemmed in by the separation barrier's tall slabs of cement.

Causing A Fuss in 2006

Roger last visited the West Bank back in 2006 (article) where he caused a fuss when he was accused of causing criminal damage (article) by spraying spraypaint on the wall!

The 65-year-old co-wrote Pink Floyd's iconic "The Wall" album and performed music from it in 1990 at the site where the Berlin Wall once stood.

Waters had harsh words for the West Bank barrier, which Israel says was built as a defense against Palestinian militants.

The musician says the wall amounts to an oppressive grab of Palestinian land and that he hopes that "this thing, this awful thing, is destroyed soon."

Roger Likes the Local Cinema?

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Jenin Cinema from the front

Visiting Jenin - the administrative centre of the West Bank, "felt foreign in a good way," former Pink Floyd front man Roger Waters told a group of film students and several journalists in a small auditorium in the Sam Spiegel Film School in Jerusalem Monday evening.

Waters was referring to his visit earlier in the day to the West Bank Palestinian town where he arrived to see in person a torn down cinema hall which he is helping rebuild. The cinema in Jenin was closed in 1987and has since been neglected and fallen into disrepair.

The Evening Begins

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Roger Waters met a German film maker called Marcus Vetters whilst at a film festival dedicated to peace in Berlin. Vetters directed a moving film called 'Heart of Jenin' about a Palestinian man called Ismali Katib who donated the organs of his dead children to be transplanted in Israeli Hospital patients. Quite an act considering the history of the area.

Although he made several other films, it was after making Heart of Jenin that Vetters decided to promote the rebuilding of the cinema in Jenin. The cinema is to promote peace and understanding.

Waters met Vetters in a festival dedicated to films about peace in Berlin, and immediately embraced the young director's initiative. It was not clear whether the renowned rock musician was financially supporting the project or if he just lends his reputation to it as leverage.

Roger Waters: "I am not of the Bono school."

Whilst in Jerusalem, Waters said, "I am not of the Bono school, who goes around the world being nice to everyone. When I have bad words to say I say them," he warned at the beginning of a short Q & A session that he had with Press Association.

Roger was asked a series of questions at the Q&A session. Some of the questions he found to be quite irritating!

Asked by The Jerusalem Post whether he and Vetters were not afraid that the cinema, when up and running, might be hijacked by extremist forces which would use it to indoctrinate the Palestinians with hate propaganda, Waters answered that Fakhri, the Jenin man who is expected to eventually run the cinema, "would rather die than let it be taken over by extreme religious or political forces."

When a reporter asked him whether he was aware of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's vow never to divide Jerusalem, he said angrily - "I have to take a few deep breaths before I answer" - that he could not believe that this was the current policy of the government, which he defined as "extreme right wing."

Waters Supports Two-State Solution

Waters seemed to support the two-state solution (hence pushing for the division of Jerusalem) but also asserted: "Voting doesn't mean shit unless everybody has a vote and everyone can move around freely… there should be no checkpoints. All this checkpoint bullshit is a method of your government to control, not only the Palestinians but you as well."

Waters said of the wall in West Bank, "[it's] an obscenity for other people in the world. It looks OK to Jews here and maybe in other places where they live, but people around the world see it as a weird way to live." He did not comment on the context in which it was built and the decline in terror attacks since its construction.

Asked by the Post to comment on the fact that Israelis enjoy a healthy political debate, including many political parties and NGOs which adopted the narrative of the "other," while there is little comparable debate and dissent coming from the Palestinians, he replied, "What do you expect when they don't have a pot to piss in?"

Waters: Religion is a smokescreen

Waters referred to religion as a "smokescreen" used by governments to gain power, wealth and land, and insisted as a self-proclaimed atheist that religion stands at the root of many global conflicts.

The weary looking 65-year-old insisted that, despite all the suffering he said he had seen, he was still "full of hope," and urged young Israelis to "move toward a solution which will be acceptable to both Israelis and Palestinians."

To do this, he suggested the people "Fight [their] current prime minister and move Israel to the left and away from this intransigent, hubris-affected hegemonistic (sic) state of affairs."

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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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As with almost everything else politically, I could not disagree more with Waters' hopeful yet almost childishly ignorant views regarding the situation in the middle east. The Palestinian "state", one that can't even govern itself its so full of hate-filled and opposing viewpoints, have vowed to "rid the world of the Zionist state." Make no mistake, a "two-state solution" is only viable to the see-no-evil, willfully blind crowd who refuse to acknowledge the current Jihad against both Israel and the Western world.
How is none of this visible to Roger? It at times seems that he would rather not acknowledge the other side of the debate, as though in his mind it doesn't exist, and has absolutely no merit. It's a very closed-minded and arrogant approach from a man who has seen enough to know better.
IMO, of course.
BTW - NOT Jewish, in case any were wondering, as some tend to do.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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What would the solution possibly be without a two state solution? Integration?
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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I don't know if I would call the Middle East 'hate-filled'. I grew up in Bahrain and the UAE - my mom lives there and my dad in Saudi Arabia, and I know a LOT of Palestinian and Israli people. These are teenagers who don't give a shit, but still - they are best friends. I am not underestimating what people have gone through - but the point needs to be made that the Middle East is not ALL terrorism, kidnapping and hate. There is also a lot of beauty there. I lived near the border of Afghanistan for 17 years - and have never had anything occur. I at least admire Roger for going - so much press happens all around the world concerning the Middle East and not all of it is true. Roger is at least there - and at least he is doing something about the shitty world today. I do want to ask him, though - it is a short distance from Palestine to Dubai - come over for a while? <ii>

Personally, I don't agree 100% with Roger, but do see his point and slightly favour it. I mean it seems like Jerusalem is just being tightened and pushed together and frictioned (yes, I am aware of how pornographic this sounds, and that frictioned is not a word) and if continued, it will inevitably lead to an explosion. The two-state division idea would definately ease some of the tension - but only if EVERYONE can vote. Is that going to happen? Probably not. But we can at least hope.

And Keith, I don't see an alternate solution. There is NO clear-cut, going to solve all the problems solution. We need to stick what appears to eliminate the most danger, and use that as our base.

Sorry - I tend to go really abstract and long-winded when constructing a political idea..which is bad. ](*,)
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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People who teach their children that jews are the devil and should be hated and celebrate whenever a jew is killed and only use maps where Israel doesnt exist cant live without walls next to the people they want dead.

Maybe Roger should go to Iran or some other Islamic hell hole and tell them that all religion is horrible, including Islam. Lets see how well that goes. Maybe he can draw them a cartoon of Mohammed.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Keith Jordan wrote:What would the solution possibly be without a two state solution? Integration?
I think that if the Palestinians are serious about getting a separate state, they first need to organize to the point where they have a leader that is more than just in-name-only, condemning anti-Zionist rhetoric as wholly unacceptable, and also condemning Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's push to "eliminate the Jewish state."
I'm pretty sure he's not speaking diplomatically.
I realize that Israel is heavy-handed and at times unreasonable, but I'm not sure they're getting a fair shake from Roger in the piece.
They have some very serious and legitimate grievances that must be addressed.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Who holds the aces, the east or the west? this is the crap our children are learning

](*,) [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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hmtv5 wrote: Who holds the aces, the east or the west? this is the crap our children are learning

](*,) [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
To what crap are you referring?
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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RW wants Israel to give up its security. Yet, he lives in the Hamptons and he has tons of security. Why doesnt RW be an example and give up his security detail and go live somewhere where its dangerous. The fact that Israel has lost fewer people to suicide douche-bags, thanks to this wall, doesnt seem to faze him.

Now that the US has somebody that he supports, he has to channel his wierd political hate on somebody else.

Was the raised he was raised I guess.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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kitkat wrote:RW wants Israel to give up its security. Yet, he lives in the Hamptons and he has tons of security. Why doesnt RW be an example and give up his security detail and go live somewhere where its dangerous. The fact that Israel has lost fewer people to suicide douche-bags, thanks to this wall, doesnt seem to faze him.

Now that the US has somebody that he supports, he has to channel his wierd political hate on somebody else.

Was the raised he was raised I guess.
He does seem to have an unreasonable disdain for the very political system that has allowed his creativity to flourish and to be rewarded richly for his musical genius.
If you read my first post on this thread, you'll see where I stand.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Bumr50 wrote: He does seem to have an unreasonable disdain for the very political system that has allowed his creativity to flourish and to be rewarded richly for his musical genius.
.
Political systems are not what allow creativity to flourish.
What allows the political system to flourish?

The answer is creativity. Creativity allows the political system to flourish. (and fear)

You've got it all backwards, Bummer50.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Idisaffect wrote:
Bumr50 wrote: He does seem to have an unreasonable disdain for the very political system that has allowed his creativity to flourish and to be rewarded richly for his musical genius.
.
Political systems are not what allow creativity to flourish.
What allows the political system to flourish?

The answer is creativity. Creativity allows the political system to flourish. (and fear)

You've got it all backwards, Bummer50.
What?
I prefer my government as small and uncreative as possible.

And I'd like to know Waters solution rather than listen to him spite everything he deems to be "right."
As an individualist I try and see what both conservatives and liberals (two terms that are GROSSLY outdated) bring to the table and have an open mind.

What do you personally think would happen if that wall were torn down right now? Do you think the fighting would stop?
Or do you feel that Israel has no right to exist? And if so, where do the Israelis go?

Your comment seems to label me "confused." I'm just trying to express my views in a world that still operates on the presumptions of wealth and ownership. While a great and inspirational vision it is to WANT to have a world where mankind has moved beyond such measures of worth and into the intrinsic spiritual value of each person, it remains fact that all of all the religions of the world it is Islam where many followers are bent on creating a Muslim planet by any means necessary through a multi-leveled jihad.
This is happening right now.
Just because Waters views religion as a silly triviality through which truly rational people have transcended and moved beyond, does not make it go away.
This invalidates his arguments and makes him look rather silly, and more importantly insulting to the people of Israel whose lives are threatened by not only their Palestinian neighbors daily but by entire nations such as Iran, based solely on religion.
Have you ever listened to Ahmadinejad?
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Bumr50 wrote:What?
I prefer my government as small and uncreative as possible.
Don't understand me too quickly.

Government is a result of a group of people being creative. Humans "create" governments. Political systems are a result of creativity. I'm not talking about governments being creative after the fact. I'm saying that creativity came before political systems and so political systems are not what allow creativity to flourish.
Creativity is what allows political systems to flourish.

In other words:
What came first...creativity or political systems?
A: Creativity.
That's why your original statement about a political system allowing creativity to flourish is wrong.

As for those who want to force their religion on everyone else....
Their soldiers are not listening to pink floyd so it's not Waters fault. He already explained that war and religion are bullshit. He managed to get that message into MILLIONS of homes. He'd probably go down fighting if they kicked in his door.

Israel is insulted by Waters views? They can kill him if they don't like it. Or counter his views with their own personal opinion.
Bumr50 wrote: What do you personally think would happen if that wall were torn down right now? Do you think the fighting would stop?
Or do you feel that Israel has no right to exist? And if so, where do the Israelis go?
I think the war needs to drag on and on until it satisfies the greed and lust for power that is in the hearts of the men who are causing it.

When the war comes home I will be in it, too.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Idisaffect wrote:
Bumr50 wrote:What?
I prefer my government as small and uncreative as possible.
Don't understand me too quickly.

Government is a result of a group of people being creative. Humans "create" governments. Political systems are a result of creativity. I'm not talking about governments being creative after the fact. I'm saying that creativity came before political systems and so political systems are not what allow creativity to flourish.
Creativity is what allows political systems to flourish.

In other words:
What came first...creativity or political systems?
A: Creativity.
That's why your original statement about a political system allowing creativity to flourish is wrong.

As for those who want to force their religion on everyone else....
Their soldiers are not listening to pink floyd so it's not Waters fault. He already explained that war and religion are bullshit. He managed to get that message into MILLIONS of homes. He'd probably go down fighting if they kicked in his door.

Israel is insulted by Waters views? They can kill him if they don't like it. Or counter his views with their own personal opinion.
Bumr50 wrote: What do you personally think would happen if that wall were torn down right now? Do you think the fighting would stop?
Or do you feel that Israel has no right to exist? And if so, where do the Israelis go?
I think the war needs to drag on and on until it satisfies the greed and lust for power that is in the hearts of the men who are causing it.

When the war comes home I will be in it, too.
I never said that political systems allowed creativity to flourish. One did, however, allow Roger Waters the tools with which to reach his "millions of homes."

Are you saying that if Roger Waters were born in St. Petersburg rather than London, we would know who he was today?
And if we did, do you think his message would have been the same?

Perhaps "influenced" would have been a better word than "allowed."

The sentiment that war and religion are bullshit are shared by many, and to some degree me. I just don't understand how most people choose to err on the side of socialism, which places the fates of many in the hands of few, where man's greed and lust for power as you say can flourish unchecked by the people.

I am in no way saying that democracy and a free-market economy are perfect. I am saying that they are a step forward, at the risk of being out of fashion of late.
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Re: Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

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Bumr50 wrote:I never said that political systems allowed creativity to flourish. One did, however, allow Roger Waters the tools with which to reach his "millions of homes."
Yes you did.....
Bumr50 wrote:the very political system that has allowed his creativity to flourish
Bumr50 wrote:Are you saying that A) if Roger Waters were born in St. Petersburg rather than London, we would know who he was today?
B)And if we did, do you think his message would have been the same?
A: No, I'm not saying that but since you asked.....Maybe. We'll never know.
B: I think there are people everywhere that think religion and war are fucked. That doesn't mean they can get away with saying it out loud.

Anyway....Waters doesn't have the ways and means to end the war. That much is obvious. Either do you and I. At least we're all using our precious freedom of speech.

We better do what we can while we can even if others insist on judging us.
Bumr50 wrote:I just don't understand how most people choose to err on the side of socialism,
Did you expect that you would understand everyone?
Socialism is just another idea put forth by another group of people in yet another attempt to create order in the midst of chaos.

I noticed you and KitKat are never logged on at the same time. I hope you're not him because I said goodbye forever to him.