She was a Millionaire

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professor frogmorton
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She was a Millionaire

Post by professor frogmorton » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:46 am

Months ago I posted a subject relating to the Pink Floyd backing track "In the Beechwoods", which some felt was a big stretch for me to identify as the Syd Barrett song "Milky Way". If you thought that was a stretch, than perhaps you will think this even further a stretch.

I have recently noticed something curious in regards to the possibility of just what the origin of the Pink Floyd "untitled instrumental" outtake might be. (The minute and a half snippet with drums,bass,guitar, backwards guitar, and organ intro)

Bare with me please...listen to the organ intro at the beginning and see if it sounds familiar....it is very similar to the guitar intro played by Barrett on Opel, prior to the waltz melody and lyrics. I was sort of humming it one day and realized its the same progression as the Opel guitar intro.

Also while recording the outtake of "Millionaire" in 1970 Barrett is said to have been recorded singing the end chorus of Opel off-mike. That version of "Millionaire" is also described as a waltz. Hence, there is some relation musically between Opel and Millionaire, even if the lyrics were very different.

It may be a stretch, but anything is possible, and just maybe the "untitled instrumental outtake" is the beginning of the original "She was a Millionaire", which may have been musically structured in a similar way to Opel if not the very same song. It would make sense due to the fact that " She was a Millionaire" is said to have been partially recorded and then abandoned as a single. This snippet sounds like just that.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by dgsyd1 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:24 am

It's possible I suppose. But as I understand it "She Was A Millionare" was originally attempted during the PATGOD sessions, whereas "No Title" was apparently recorded on Sept 4th 1967. That's not to say that there isn't a possibility that the song was an attempt to record "She Was A Millionare", although personally I don't think it was.
We might be able to shed some more light on it, if we could hear the full 4 1/2 minute version of "No Title", but i'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by Chris Moise » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:00 am

professor frogmorton wrote:Months ago I posted a subject relating to the Pink Floyd backing track "In the Beechwoods", which some felt was a big stretch for me to identify as the Syd Barrett song "Milky Way". If you thought that was a stretch, than perhaps you will think this even further a stretch.

I have recently noticed something curious in regards to the possibility of just what the origin of the Pink Floyd "untitled instrumental" outtake might be. (The minute and a half snippet with drums,bass,guitar, backwards guitar, and organ intro)

Bare with me please...listen to the organ intro at the beginning and see if it sounds familiar....it is very similar to the guitar intro played by Barrett on Opel, prior to the waltz melody and lyrics. I was sort of humming it one day and realized its the same progression as the Opel guitar intro.

Also while recording the outtake of "Millionaire" in 1970 Barrett is said to have been recorded singing the end chorus of Opel off-mike. That version of "Millionaire" is also described as a waltz. Hence, there is some relation musically between Opel and Millionaire, even if the lyrics were very different.

It may be a stretch, but anything is possible, and just maybe the "untitled instrumental outtake" is the beginning of the original "She was a Millionaire", which may have been musically structured in a similar way to Opel if not the very same song. It would make sense due to the fact that " She was a Millionaire" is said to have been partially recorded and then abandoned as a single. This snippet sounds like just that.
I think you're reaching. She Was A Millionaire was logged as such when it was recorded in April 1967. The instrumental you describe was recorded in September and was slisted as "No Title".

I do agree the mellotron intro sounds similar to Opel but that is where any similarity stops. She was a Millionaire was desribed as a "jolly, tuneful, upbeat" song and that doesn't fit with the 90 second 9/67 Sound Techniques instrumental. The author of Random Precision describes the 1970 attempt at Millionaire in his book. Based on his description it seems that the "I'm trying, to find you" part of Opel was the She Was A Millionaire chorus or at least a section of the song. I can't see how that section would fit the Sound Techniques instro.

The session tapes for "No Title", In The Beechwoods, John Latham and a 10 minute instrumental from the Beechwoods session survive. I would do terrible, terrbile things to hear them :)

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:23 pm

Chris Moise wrote:She Was A Millionaire was logged as such when it was recorded in April 1967. The instrumental you describe was recorded in September and was listed as "No Title".
Is there evidence that the 90 second instrumental is the untitled September piece?

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by dgsyd1 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:33 pm

lovescene4 wrote: Is there conclusive evidence that the 90 second instrumental is the untitled September piece?
IIRC, (I don't have my copy of Random Precision handy)we can't be 100% certain, but "No Title" was among the Pink Floyd tracks transfered to another tape reel for possible work during Syd's solo session in May 1968. And started circulating after Malcom Jones played part of his copy of the tape, and some of Syd's other solo sessions, for fans. So the most likely source of the instrumental is the Sept 4th 1967 session, but like I said we can't be certain.

It would still be nice to hear the whole thing though.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:56 pm

dgsyd1 wrote:IIRC, (I don't have my copy of Random Precision handy)we can't be 100% certain, but "No Title" was among the Pink Floyd tracks transfered to another tape reel for possible work during Syd's solo session in May 1968. And started circulating after Malcom Jones played part of his copy of the tape, and some of Syd's other solo sessions, for fans. So the most likely source of the instrumental is the Sept 4th 1967 session, but like I said we can't be certain.
It does seem likely... The book shows:

4 September 1967 (tape reel E68411)
Unknown Title
take 2 (unknown duration, 'save')
take 7 (4.32, 'Master')
[the only complete takes]

20 October 1967 (tape reel E68410)
In The Beechwoods
take 3 (2.38)
take 4 (5.00)
take 5 (5.08)
[the only complete takes]

and transferred for reference on 6 May 1968:

No Title (transfer from E68410)
takes 3-5
In The Beechwood (transfer from E68411)
take 7

It seems the tapes transferred on 6 May had their titles reversed: "No Title" was really "In The Beechwoods" and vice versa.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by Chris Moise » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:10 am

lovescene4 wrote:
dgsyd1 wrote:IIRC, (I don't have my copy of Random Precision handy)we can't be 100% certain, but "No Title" was among the Pink Floyd tracks transfered to another tape reel for possible work during Syd's solo session in May 1968. And started circulating after Malcom Jones played part of his copy of the tape, and some of Syd's other solo sessions, for fans. So the most likely source of the instrumental is the Sept 4th 1967 session, but like I said we can't be certain.
It does seem likely... The book shows:

4 September 1967 (tape reel E68411)
Unknown Title
take 2 (unknown duration, 'save')
take 7 (4.32, 'Master')
[the only complete takes]

20 October 1967 (tape reel E68410)
In The Beechwoods
take 3 (2.38)
take 4 (5.00)
take 5 (5.08)
[the only complete takes]

and transferred for reference on 6 May 1968:

No Title (transfer from E68410)
takes 3-5
In The Beechwood (transfer from E68411)
take 7

It seems the tapes transferred on 6 May had their titles reversed: "No Title" was really "In The Beechwoods" and vice versa.
Thanks for posting that. I agree, it seems like David Parker's research all but proves that No Title really does date from that one off 4 September 1967 session. I would LOVE to hear the complete version of that track, especially since it is a unknown Syd original. Note that the backwards noises are unintentional. The are just left over from an unrelated recording. Probably unlikely but I hope Syd sings some lyrics off mic on one of the Beechwoods takes. Someone should play that reel for the band and see if they can remember anything about it..

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:17 am

Chris Moise wrote:Thanks for posting that. I agree, it seems like David Parker's research all but proves that No Title really does date from that one off 4 September 1967 session. I would LOVE to hear the complete version of that track, especially since it is a unknown Syd original.
You're welcome... I'll stay optimistic about a 'Saucerful Of Secrets' remaster next year, with Scream Thy Last Scream, Vegetable Man, John Latham, In The Beechwoods, No Title and other instrumentals... [-D-]

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by professor frogmorton » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:06 am

lovescene4 said.......It seems the tapes transferred on 6 May had their titles reversed: "No Title" was really "In The Beechwoods" and vice versa.


meaning the two complete takes of "no title" were timed at 5 minutes and 5 minutes 8 seconds, of which we have only heard a 1 minute 30 second snippet. The Barrett recording of "Opel" times in at 6 minutes 24 seconds. My belief is that Opel is structured the same as "She was Millionaire", whether or not the lyrics are alternate I have'nt a clue, though I suspect thet are the same.

It seems to me that Barrett in his post-Pink Floyd recordings was generally performing his songs at a slower pace and in a lower or more subdued register. Syd is known to have done faster and slower versions of a number of songs, most prominently Dark Globe and Love You. Opel is a very stark song, and not one I think of as upbeat or happy as "She was a Millionaire" has been described. However if it is played at a faster tempo and in a higher register it is'nt quite jolly, but much more lively,...like a Irish barroom waltz. If you go on the assumption that the "no title" instrumental is the backing" track to either "She was a Millionaire" or the related "Opel", and the assumption that the structure is roughly the same and having the same chords and verses, than an appropriate tempo increase for "Opel" to fit the whole take of "No Title" can be roughly estimated by speeding it up to equal five minutes, minus the intro, which seems to be at relatively the same tempo.

The very distinctive intro of "No title" is the very same intro as "Opel", and when when the body of the song "Opel" is sped up and the pitch slightly increased, the structure seems to match in a more audible way. It is the bass guitar in "no title" that is close to the Barrett strummed chords of Opel.
The notes Syd is playing in the full band instrumental are embellishments as he does in "Apples and Oranges", with the bass holding the structure.

"No title" is a very fast waltz. with ascending and descending notes played on Syd's guitar.
Maybe "Opel" in its original form was a rocking tune.

There are so many examples of mislabeled reels and title changes in Barrett's and PF's recording history at Abbey Road, that I feel to rely on that information so heavily, with the assumption that it is rock solid, is to limit possibilities.

The fact that incompleted titles ie..Vegetable Man, No Title, Scream Thy Last Scream and In the Beechwoods were coupled together in hopes that Syd might finish them in the early days of his departure from Pink Floyd, also lends credence to the possibility of "No Title" being "She was a Millionaire" or "Opel". Because where was and what happened to the spoken of and announced single " She was a Millionaire". If it did exist in unfinished form it seems that it would be an obvious candidate for inclusion of tracks Barrett might complete, when Peter Jenner and Malcolm Jones began trying to record Syd. It is worth mentioning that Saucerful of Secrets was'nt put together to be mastered until the same day of, or just after the above titles were pulled for Syd to work on. Maybe they too( the other members of Pink Floyd) had hopes he would finish them for possible inclusion on ASOS.


Rick Wright stated offhandedly that Syd wrote all his solo songs while in PF, Peter Jenner says he wrote most of them while in PF, Boyd recognizes demos Syd gave him in Syd's solo records...so it seems likely that unfinished Pink Floyd songs written by Barrett could likely be on his later albums, if not highly probable...for example "Milky Way" and "Opel".

I may be entirely wrong about this, and if so, I'll be the first to say I'm a complete ass.
The irritating part is that we may never know, barring the remaining PF decide to shed light on this. How hard would it be to ask them?

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by Chris Moise » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:39 am

professor frogmorton wrote:..meaning the two complete takes of "no title" were timed at 5 minutes and 5 minutes 8 seconds, of which we have only heard a 1 minute 30 second snippet. The Barrett recording of "Opel" times in at 6 minutes 24 seconds. My belief is that Opel is structured the same as "She was Millionaire", whether or not the lyrics are alternate I have'nt a clue, though I suspect thet are the same.

..If you go on the assumption that the "no title" instrumental is the backing" track to either "She was a Millionaire" or the related "Opel", and the assumption that the structure is roughly the same and having the same chords and verses, than an appropriate tempo increase for "Opel" to fit the whole take of "No Title" can be roughly estimated by speeding it up to equal five minutes, minus the intro, which seems to be at relatively the same tempo.

"No title" is a very fast waltz. with ascending and descending notes played on Syd's guitar.
Maybe "Opel" in its original form was a rocking tune.

The fact that incompleted titles ie..Vegetable Man, No Title, Scream Thy Last Scream and In the Beechwoods were coupled together in hopes that Syd might finish them in the early days of his departure from Pink Floyd, also lends credence to the possibility of "No Title" being "She was a Millionaire" or "Opel". Because where was and what happened to the spoken of and announced single " She was a Millionaire". If it did exist in unfinished form it seems that it would be an obvious candidate for inclusion of tracks Barrett might complete, when Peter Jenner and Malcolm Jones began trying to record Syd.
I share your enthusiasm for this stuff but I think you are *really* reaching here.

Opel, She Was A Millionaire and No Title are 3 completely different songs. Random Precision author David Parker has heard the 1970 attempt at Millionaire and he mentions in his book that "apart from the "I'm trying" bit Millionaire bears no resemblance to any other Syd Barrett or Pink Floyd song." That settles that.

There are collectors that have heard the complete No Title (I'm not one of them) and they have reported that save for the mellatron intro it has no resemblance to Opel, Millionaire or any other Syd solo or Pink Floyd song.

It's worth mentioning that the recording sheet for the 4/67 attempt at She Was A Millionaire lists the track as "She Was A Millionaire" and an August '67 blurb in Melody Maker mentions that the Floyd's next single will be either Scream or Millionaire. No Title was recorded in September '67 and it is listed on the recording sheet as "No Title" (not Millionaire).

About the May '68 tape of Syd's unfinished PF compositions...that reel was compiled from tracks that were recorded at De Lane Lea and Sound Techniques (not Abbey Rd.). Those studios were 1/2" 4 track. Abbey Rd was 1" 4 track. To enable Syd to work on the De Lane Lea and Sound Techniques tapes they had to copy them to the 1" Abbey Rd standard since he was working at Abbey Rd. Both Scream and She Was A Millionaire were recorded at Abbey Rd. so there was no reason to copy those tapes. It's also possible the She Was A Millionaire tapes were already bulk erased or discarded by then.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:05 am

professor frogmorton wrote:lovescene4 said.......It seems the tapes transferred on 6 May had their titles reversed: "No Title" was really "In The Beechwoods" and vice versa.

meaning the two complete takes of "no title" were timed at 5 minutes and 5 minutes 8 seconds, of which we have only heard a 1 minute 30 second snippet.
Actually, those two takes of No Title would be of "unknown duration" and 4.32 (if that matters in this context).
professor frogmorton wrote:My belief is that Opel is structured the same as "She was Millionaire", whether or not the lyrics are alternate I have'nt a clue, though I suspect thet are the same.
Andrew King recalled the "She Was a Millionaire" lyrics as "She was a millionaire, they had some time to spare, and they had a lovely time together" or something like that... The first two lines do seem to fit the lead guitar melody of the 90 second instrumental: along with its introduction this might help strengthen your case. It's not inconceivable that "No Title" was an attempt to remake "She Was A Millionaire"... especially as they were trying for a new single at the time.

The whole matter remains speculative for a number of reasons. It seems that Parker assumes "Millionaire" (1970) and "She Was A Millionaire" (1967) are the same song, even though there's no real evidence for this(?).
professor frogmorton wrote:There are so many examples of mislabeled reels and title changes in Barrett's and PF's recording history at Abbey Road, that I feel to rely on that information so heavily, with the assumption that it is rock solid, is to limit possibilities.
Yes, we musn't rely on it too heavily; yet as far as studio documentation goes, it's pretty solid.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by Chris Moise » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:04 pm

lovescene4 wrote:...It seems that Parker assumes "Millionaire" (1970) and "She Was A Millionaire" (1967) are the same song, even though there's no real evidence for this(?).
.
Last edited by Chris Moise on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:10 pm

Chris Moise wrote:
lovescene4 wrote:...It seems that Parker assumes "Millionaire" (1970) and "She Was A Millionaire" (1967) are the same song, even though there's no real evidence for this(?).
He *heard* both of them and has said they are not the same. Case closed.
When and where (or under what circumstances) did Parker hear "She Was A Millionaire" (1967)? It's not described in the book... He reports that the master is missing from the Abbey Road archives, and speculates that the band could have a copy, or that it may have been erased. He does state that "Millionaire" (1970) is not the same as "One In A Million" (from the '67 Copenhagen tape).

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by Chris Moise » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:37 pm

lovescene4 wrote:
Chris Moise wrote: He *heard* both of them and has said they are not the same. Case closed.
When and where (or under what circumstances) did Parker hear "She Was A Millionaire" (1967)? It's not described in the book... He reports that the master is missing from the Abbey Road archives, and speculates that the band could have a copy, or that it may have been erased. He does state that "Millionaire" (1970) is not the same as "One In A Million" (from the '67 Copenhagen tape).
You guys are making this difficult. The 1970 recording labeled "Millionaire" is thought to be the same song as the 1967 "She Was A Millionaire". Parker heard the 1970 recording and has said that save for the "I'm trying" section of Opel is does not resemble any other Syd solo or Pink Floyd recording. It's unlikely Syd wrote a song She Was A Millionaire and a separate song called Millionaire. My point is Millionaire is not the same song as No Title or Opel. Syd seems to have cannibalized a section of Opel (the I'm trying bit) for the unreleased She Was A Millionaire..

You're right, the 1967 recording of She Was A Millionaire is probably gone forever. It never received overdubs and it doesn't appear that it was ever mixed. It was probably erased when the Piper session tapes were junked.

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Re: She was a Millionaire

Post by lovescene4 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:06 am

I wonder if "She Was A Millionaire" was registered for copyright? If so, a lead sheet with music and lyrics might exist.