Does anyone else really not get the appeal?

[David Smith]

I am not writing this as a Syd bashing thread. I'm just kind of wondering if there are a lot of other members of this forum who don't really understand the appeal of Syd for a lot of fans. Don't get me wrong wrong, i like his first solo album and bits of the second, but i would never say they are essential purchases for anyone. The lyrics don't seem to have a whole lot of depth beneath their surrealism, PATGOD has not dated particularly well and i guess it just doesn't hold a candle to the atmospheric and powerful roger efforts to explain the human condition. Maybe i'm missing something though. I guess i'm wondering what the syd fans like so much about his music (and i don't mean that in a 'ha ha you lot have rubbish tatse' kind of way).

[my breakfast.]

I'm anticipating a mutant army of astral piper types to come here with pitchforks.

"But Syd comes to me in my dreams, maaaaaaaan...."

Anyway, I know what you mean. For pure voyeur value it is interesting to see what happens when a normal upper middle-class english dude experiments with psychedelics. Its a rare oppertunity I guess. I always felt that Syd's solo stuff *should* be good, and therefore must be appreciated. I like a few tracks, especially when David Gilmour interprets Dominoes. However his solo albums sound to me like very badly thought out sketches. You cannot overlook the complete lack of structure to his music. It does not make it unique in my opinion, it makes it sound like some waster trying to get free beer at an open mike night by half remembering the song he's trying to play. Listening to the Soft Machine trying to play along with the skeleton of Syd's songs is funny the first time.

As for lyrics they are absurdist yes, but people ALWAYS read too much into them. The last verse of Jugband Blues for example:

And the sea isn't green
And I love the queen
And what exactly is a dream
And what exactly is a joke.

People read all sorts of stuff into those lyrics I am pretty sure isn't there. Is the queen a reference to his mother? The green sea a reference to the Beatles? The dream/joke a barbed view of the music industry exploiting young acid-crazed english boys for the sake of a few pennies?

Or is it random splutterings that were chosen because they rhyme? More likely?

People who know very little about Syd Barrett, but fill in the gaps with pure fantasy (*cough* *astral piper* *cough*) always seem to give the guy a huge amount of credit he doesn't deserve. If nothing else he totally fucked his bandmates over by making them go professional then becoming so unreliable he couldn't play a decent gig or write a decent song, ths putting them in a lot of danger.

[ddebil]

At risk of being pierced by the aforementioned pitchforks (nice one MB.. ), I tend to agree with both David and Alan on this. I'm sure it was fantastic in it's day but for me, the Syd years haven't stood the test of time.
I say this because they are the least listened to by me, which has to mean something..to me.
I'm all for tripping your nut off for fun (ah, the good old days ) but it's not exactly helpful in a working environment.
Imagine where all your post would end up, eh, Alan...let alone my poor passengers.

[my breakfast.]

Pitchforks sir... hundreds of them!

I think Piper has survived better than a lot of other stuff of that era. But to me the lasting charm of Piper is the fact that Roger Waters plays high up on the bass on that album. The album has a lack of bassend as a result, making it float along sonically, which is quite spacey right?

[ddebil]

Pitchforks sir... hundreds of them!

That's a lot of pricks!

As to the playing side, I wouldn't know - I'm not intrumental in my life but can say that PATGOD is the biggest dust-gatherer. Maybe I need to get stoned again....

[30yrsydfan]

I get it, have for 30 years. Listen more with your heart than your ears. Then again, some just dont get it. Piper has aged well, I disagree with you. Astronomy Domine in particular is a timeless rockin' piece. Syd's lyrics are more about feeling than actual word meaning. I think he wrote the words not to convey the meaning of the words but to convey a feeling or thought he had thru a series of words. It is hard to explain; then gain Syd's mind was not like most normal folks. jmpo. He will always be a special gem.

[cwta eugene]

I don't believe he was on a higher plane of logic or anything, but he WAS quite original, which is hard to find in the music industry. He offers me an escape from the dreary world that is Roger's Floyd. The great thing for me about Pink Floyd is it so diverse, you get to see all the musical sides of these men, whether it be a hard-rocking tune like The Nile Song, a spaced-out trippy tune like SOS, a country ballad like Crumbling Land, etc. etc.

Sometimes I just don't want to go as deep as Roger would like me to in something like, oh...Dogs for instance or Us and Them. Every once in a while it's nice to turn on Matilda Mother and reminisce on those grandly innocent nursery days before all the wars, the manipulation, the insanity, the pressures of life, the back-bitingness of the music industry, etc. etc. It is all just part of the stew that boils in the PF pot.

[my breakfast.]

I get it, have for 30 years. Listen more with your heart than your ears.

David's original post pointed out specifically that the lyrics were the problem for him, which is a heart not an ear thing right.

Then again, some just dont get it.

A nice stab of elitism there. If we don't think Syd's stuff is up to much it is because we don't 'get' it, not because there is nothing to 'get'?

Piper has aged well, I disagree with you. Astronomy Domine in particular is a timeless rockin' piece.

Piper has not aged well. Compared to modern pop music it has little in common (for better or for worse), and it sounds completely antiquated. When do you ever here automatic double tracking, quasi-victorian harmonies and buzzing Farfisa organ in modern music unless its some stupid hipster band from New York on myspace? If Indie kids were not so obsessed with quaint and antique/obsolete stuff Piper would sound a lot worse.=, but it certainly has not aged well when you look at it in the current musical climate.

Syd's lyrics are more about feeling than actual word meaning. I think he wrote the words not to convey the meaning of the words but to convey a feeling or thought he had thru a series of words. It is hard to explain; then gain Syd's mind was not like most normal folks. jmpo. He will always be a special gem.

I highlighted the important word here.

This is all your opinion and nothing more. People have the same opinion about a whole host of old dead rockstars they know little about. Did Syd himself say that is why he wrote his lyrics? Special gem or failure? You could argue either way.

[ddebil]

Then again, some just dont get it.

But was there really anything to get in the first place?

[30yrsydfan]

I get it, have for 30 years. Listen more with your heart than your ears.

David's original post pointed out specifically that the lyrics were the problem for him, which is a heart not an ear thing right.

Then again, some just dont get it.

A nice stab of elitism there. If we don't think Syd's stuff is up to much it is because we don't 'get' it, not because there is nothing to 'get'?

Piper has aged well, I disagree with you. Astronomy Domine in particular is a timeless rockin' piece.

Piper has not aged well. Compared to modern pop music it has little in common (for better or for worse), and it sounds completely antiquated. When do you ever here automatic double tracking, quasi-victorian harmonies and buzzing Farfisa organ in modern music unless its some stupid hipster band from New York on myspace? If Indie kids were not so obsessed with quaint and antique/obsolete stuff Piper would sound a lot worse.=, but it certainly has not aged well when you look at it in the current musical climate.

Syd's lyrics are more about feeling than actual word meaning. I think he wrote the words not to convey the meaning of the words but to convey a feeling or thought he had thru a series of words. It is hard to explain; then gain Syd's mind was not like most normal folks. jmpo. He will always be a special gem.

I highlighted the important word here.

This is all your opinion and nothing more. People have the same opinion about a whole host of old dead rockstars they know little about. Did Syd himself say that is why he wrote his lyrics? Special gem or failure? You could argue either way.

of course it is my opinion, that is why i wrote jmpo. see how that works?

[J Ed]

lets seperate out his work with Floyd from the solo albums
he was by all accounts a man struggling with mental health issues after he was expelled from the band, so on those solo albums what we're hearing is a mostly failed attempt to translate what he hears in his head to something everybody else can hear too ... his friends are being very patient trying to help him do this but in the end its just fragments of something none of us can really appreciate cuz we dont live in his head
that sort of thing has an appeal all its own, but its different from an album being a "masterpiece"

Piper however is mostly a masterpiece, excepting some songs on side 2
they never played like that again, that fast, that wacky, with that many changes in a song
had Syd remained sane and they continued theyd be a very different sort of band, and itd be cool to see where they would have evolved from that Piper sound
the singles have the same qualities Ive attributed to Piper but even more so

Im surprised to see above folks I know who are fans of Baxters era Airplane calling Piper dated, because I think they have similar strengths
traditions of song structure seem to be dispensed with as fast as the ideas can come, and although some of it shoudlnt work we'd never hear anything like that if these artists were trying to adhere to any selfdiscipline

then theres the long improvisations we hear on the ...In London soundtrack ... again very different from the jams the remaining Floyds would do from 68-72, much less rehearsed and much more genuinely improvised
its always worth listening to those one more time and noticing new details
I think he was very good at that sort of thing and I wish there was more recordings of that, before he started getting locked into the role of being a writer of popsongs

[30yrsydfan]

Then again, some just dont get it.

But was there really anything to get in the first place?

How about some people just don't appreciate it. is that OK?

[ddebil]

That's fine too....but can you tell me what it is?

[30yrsydfan]

That's fine too....but can you tell me what it is?

For me "it" is the beauty, simplicity and raw emotion i get from listening to the songs. The words for me are like a portrait and when i listen to them and think about his life and what he went through, and how he eventually lived his life I can relate to them. There is something special in each of his songs for me (except maybe wolfpack). It for me is what i feel when i listen to them, and how i can appreciate his talent. "It" is many things. The for example, the start of dark globe: "Oh where are you now". For me that is a cry of longing and loneliness. In just those 5 words he painted a picture of despair. I have felt that in my life before and I can relate. Then he uses the words "pussy willow that smiled on this leaf". True poetry imo. This is just one example for me.
Just my personal opinion of course. take care.

[ddebil]

Thank you for trying to help me get 'it'. I still don't, but that may be my problem.