Wolfpack wrote:which refers to the 1967 san fran fiasco tv filming where syd crushed 20 or so mandrakes pills mixed with hair goo and locked himself in the back stage dressing room and refused to join the band to start a live recording for tv/radio show //interview...
Jeez where did this get so tangled?!
San Francisco is a 1967 super 8 movie with Pink Floyd on the soundtrack jamming up Interstellar in Syd's garage).
Syd's crazy TV stuff in the US happened on the Pat Boone show and American Bandstand (Syd staring and generally ruining a nice mimed performance). Hardly surprising being asked banal questions about American food on AB. Its hardly surprising he went crazy given that he was the cult leader of an underground noise band one minute and a pixey-pop sensation the next. A strong test of artistic integrity me thinks. However no mandrax crushing went on backstage at either event.
The mandrax crushing episode happened in the UK and Gilmour was present (and apparently irate at Syd's drug destroying habits). Apparently Syd went out with this gumbo in his hair and it melted giving him a melting appearance onstage. I think by that time they had unplugged him onstage and had Davey O'List filling in from the wings.
The confusing thing is that Syd was taught guitar by Dave, so just how much of their slide guitar + echo machines technique was borrowed from whome is probably impossible to track.
They played together in their school days in the early-mid sixties and maybe Dave showed Syd a thing or two but he didn't 'teach him' as such. David was always the better guitar player in those and later days but the slide guitar glissando thing came kind of out of Syds own head.
Least thats always been my understanding of it
GilmourGirl wrote:The Floyd stayed true to Barretts vision and they always will.
Thats why they peddled albums dedicated to Syd's "lunacy" and then descended in a glorified backing band for Waters' narciccism and intellectually bankrupt bullshit?
Well...Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Richard Wright has not done enuff??? Sorry, even Syd is "Guru" for some of you, i doubt he would have created anything impressive. World is filled with souls like Syd. But no one of em can't create anything that would last. But don't get me wrong, Syd has done many important things.
GilmourGirl wrote:The Floyd stayed true to Barretts vision and they always will.
Thats why they peddled albums dedicated to Syd's "lunacy" and then descended in a glorified backing band for Waters' narciccism and intellectually bankrupt bullshit?
They STILL stayed true to his vision. This argument is on another Barrett thread concerning Waters' exploitation of Syd.
There's a nice word you used - exploitation. All until "Dark Side of the Moon" Waters was a kind of a Syd Barrett copycat, IMHO. Even on "Dark Side" there are obvious traces of Syd's influence, or trying to make a song the way Syd would have done. It wasn't until "Wish You Were Here" that Waters musically became free of being heavily influenced by Syd, and after that his music was nothing like his pre-"Dark Side tunes. Even his acoustic stuff (most notably on "The Final Cut" and "The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking") was nothing like, per instance, "If" or "Grantchester Meadows" which were obviously written under large influence by Syd, or intentionally to sound like they were written by Syd. That doesn't really sound like "staying true to Syd's vision". After all, he himself didn't stay true to a vision he explored on "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" once he went into studio to record his solo stuff...
Waters' inspiration for the character "Pink" was Barrett. He throws up giant photos of Barrett at his shows. I remember Final Cut when it came out, back when MTV actually played videos. I remember the vid for the title track. He greatly romanticized Barretts personal issues for his own benefit. He didn't care much for Syd Barrett. He was itchin to take full control of the band from the get-go. When he finally and temporarily achieved this quest, he STILL relied on Syd's personal issues for his own gain. That being said, in defense of Waters he DID make some of the most brilliant music ever made. I'm a big fan of his music just as much as The Gilmours. But one wonders that had Barrett never influenced him, what would his music be like? "Stethiscope" (sp?) was a standout track on Piper. It was the beginning of some of the greatest- written songs to come from the mind of Roger Waters. I listened to "Pigs" yesterday for the FIRST time and I played it again and again I dug it so much. There were pros and cons to Waters' genious. He made awesome stuff but yes he DID rely on the internal suffering of his bandmate to create that music. And he became very wealthy doing it. That being said, I still very much like his music. As I posted in a Gilmour thread, some things I overlook like a horrible hypocrite does because the music gives me pleasure. I'm gonna listen to it regardless because its brilliant. Floyd is brilliant. And they're just as brilliant on their own.
I need to invest in a laptop. Fuck typing a twenty thousand word reply on a droid.
GilmourGirl wrote:I remember Final Cut when it came out, back when MTV actually played videos. I remember the vid for the title track. He greatly romanticized Barretts personal issues for his own benefit.
The video for "The Final Cut" was based on Waters' personal issues, mostly with Alan Parker and Alan Marshall (the director and executive producer of "The Wall" movie, respectively), his personal life issues with his then-wife and his reflections alluding some older Pink Floyd albums. I don't know where you found Syd in all that, I just can't see anything in that video or hear anything in that song that I can even vaguely connect with him, even though the main character in "The Wall" does draw some parallels with Syd although not as much as Waters himself...
Well, it could be argued that the "exploitation" you refer about could also be called "being hugely influenced by him (and by what happened to him) and them paying homage"
To be sincere I think there was a little bit of both things. They sure never exploited Syd, the man (after 1968 anyway), but they sure found in his story a prime source of inspiration.
But is that a bad thing? Is not like they were selling t-shirts with Syd's personal photos registering his downfall, or selling his personal diary to The Sun. If anything the closest Waters and Gilmour came to exploit Syd was when they gave him a hand in the recording of The Madcap Laughs. Some people believe that both wanted to portray Syd as a looner in order to make the record an attractive curiosity. But well that's debatable too.
Paying homage is one thing, paying homage to get wealthy is another. At least Eminem fessed up to it when he busted his controversial rhyme "I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do black music and make myself wealthy heeyy!" Waters will never fess up. But everything I write is strictly opinion and you know what they're like. I thought about what I said about what would RW's music be like had he never known Barrett. It would still be just as good I think because he is very political and very vocal about it. No doubt he is a genious in his own right.
I'm talking too much about this guy. He should fuck me good for the compliments I'm throwing his way. I could use one.
danielcaux wrote: Some people believe that both wanted to portray Syd as a looner in order to make the record an attractive curiosity. But well that's debatable too.
Well, at least mr Gilmour admitted that. I don´t know how that "madcap/looner/crazy diamond - title improved Barrett´s assorted promenades in later years.
jtull wrote:Can you elaborate a little bit on this, Hudini?
The line that says "I'll tell you what's behind the wall" refers to "The Final Cut"'s predecessor album, but it's obscured on the album by the gunshot sample and it only appears on the album sleeve. That being understood this way, the lines "There's a kid who had a big hallucination" and so on actually explain the main character from "The Wall".That's an obvious reference.
The other one, according to Andy Mabbett, is in the line that says "If I show you my dark side" which supposedly alludes to "Dark Side of the Moon" in the terms that the album (and thus the metaphor) speaks about life itself and the aspects of it most of us find burdening. I didn't understand this that way, and I don't have the book with me right now (I left it at my ex's and she just got married today so it's not really the right time to ask her to give my goddamn stuff back...) to check this so you shouldn't really trust me for this one.
I could use one.
,GG