Syd's influence on Pink Floyd after 1967

[Wolfpack]

More Syd influences:
- A son talking with his mother, in 'Mother'. (Matilda Mother)
- A strange person with a wall, in 'The Wall'. (Arnold Layne)
- Refering to the moon, in 'Brain Damage'. ((Jugband Blues)

[danielcaux]

Well, I wouldn't call that influences really, more like similarities.

There's a line in "If It's In You" that always makes me think about a Pink Floyd song:

Barrett: Please hold on to the steel rail.

Waters: Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A few years later Roger would ask.

Really minor thing, but I always link the two lyrics in my mind. Given that WYWH was mainly about Syd (and that Roger recorded "If It's In You") I wonder if Waters was referencing Barrett's lyric in that line or if it was just a coincidence.

Another BIG similarity I found is in the singing style of Waters in some songs in The Wall (Don't Leave Me Now? I think) and Barrett's own style in Dark Globe. The strained and slightly out of tune final sustained note in the chorus of Dark Globe is taken straight from the "Roger Waters Singing Technique Book"

[Wolfpack]

Well, I wouldn't call that influences really, more like similarities.

The mother's child in 'Matilda Mother' and 'Mother' are very similar.

What exactly is an influence, a similarity or just farfetched is for everyone to decide. It's partly a joke, to sum them up.
However, I'm surprised by some similarities. For example, 'Arnold Layne' with his wall does fit into 'The Wall'. Waters could perform it during his show, without getting off-topic.

There's a line in "If It's In You" that always makes me think about a Pink Floyd song:

Barrett: Please hold on to the steel rail.

Waters: Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A few years later Roger would ask.

Really minor thing, but I always link the two lyrics in my mind. Given that WYWH was mainly about Syd (and that Roger recorded "If It's In You") I wonder if Waters was referencing Barrett's lyric in that line or if it was just a coincidence.

I think it's more than a coincidence. Consiously or unconsciously, the "steel rail" could have stuck in Water's memory.

Another BIG similarity I found is in the singing style of Waters in some songs in The Wall (Don't Leave Me Now? I think) and Barrett's own style in Dark Globe. The strained and slightly out of tune final sustained note in the chorus of Dark Globe is taken straight from the "Roger Waters Singing Technique Book"

I agree. 'Don't Leave Me Now' should be on the list. I'd say it could have been called "Dark Globe Part 2".

[tebrookes]

"Steel rail" is an obvious nod. I was always under the impression that Waters' later inspiration came from a deep guilt.

[Wolfpack]

- Using loose words and phrases ("cant stop, lose job, mind gone, silicon"...) in 'Not Now John' (Rats)
- First line of 'Sheep' ("harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away") is sung like the first line of 'Wolfpack'. And the rhythm of some guitar playing reminds a bit of Barrett's playing in 'Lucifer Sam' and 'Take Thy Stethoscope'.

[Felix Atagong]

The ending of High Hopes

Code: Select all

The endless river
Forever and ever

with See Emily Play

Float down a river
forever and ever,
Emily, Emily

[J Ed]

so thats a good one, never noticed it before
I bet that actually is a deliberate reference on Daves part, given the whole nostalgic imagery of that song

[Felix Atagong]

I also think it is a deliberate reference, but what bothers me... didn't Polly writes these lyrics (but perhaps with a little help from her boyfriend)?

[nosaj]

Interesting connection...but, these boys did grow up near a river, and Gilmour still spends a lot of time on a river...could be coincidence, yet it could be deliberate considering the nature of High Hopes...somebody other than a journalist should interview David or Roger one of these days.

[wiped]

......... eventual guilt.

[my breakfast.]

Yeah, guilt and denial. Syd had a minimal influence of Pink Floyd directly once they stopped picking him up for gigs (sorry, "fired" lol). Syd was trying to channel a completely different musical vision even when he was in the band. The dodgy production on Piper doesn't really pick that up. Remember that even listening to the late 1957 bootlegs they are, at their core, a hard-hitting R'n'B band with a space overtone. After Syd got booted they first made those rancid Insta-Syd tracks like It Would Be So Nice where they tried badly to emulate his Victorian/Gothic/Childhood charm, then they set off into Spacerock via the quasi-socialist Man and the Journey suite (which recycled Pow R Toc H under a new name).

To say that Floyd reused a couple of lyrical ideas and wrote that overrated boring slab of shit known as Shine On you Crazy Diamond is the influence of Syd is so basic it is worth quickly overlooking.

[danielcaux]

A boy having an old/dying stranded mouse as pet.

Pink Floyd - Confortably Numb (The Wall Film)

Syd Barrett - Bike

I know a mouse, and he hasn't got a house.
I don't know why. I call him Gerald.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse

Another of those cases where I don't know if it is just a coincidence, a non concious Barrett influence on Waters or a direct reference to Syd, like having Pink shaving his eyebrows on the movie.

[scarecrow]

Re: High Hopes

I think the river link with Emily is pretty likely.

The song is a rumination on the band reaching middle age, and scattered with specific references to Cambridge, 'Long Road', [Fen] Causeway, the Cut etc, which the video is built around, with its metaphysical bouncing beach balls. I always assumed the Division Bell itself in some way referred to the division between Barrett and the rest of them, given that Gilmour described the record as exploring breakdown of communication or something along those lines.

Less a case of Syd's influence, more a reflection on how their lives had drifted apart since, a kind of an update on WYWH.

Musically speaking, Barrett and Wright had a shared interest in jazz which made for a good groove when it worked. I think Mason was a passable dance drummer in the mid 60s Floyd, before settling into his slow plod on much of the 70s Floyd. I find it interesting that Wright remarked in a late interview that the time he really enjoyed in the band was the mid 60s.

Guitar technique-wise, in the past Gilmour has defended his use of the 'echo box' style, which was refined to lap-steel with foot volume pedal plus echo unit on Breathe and other songs - against allegations of 'ripping off' Barrett... given the circumstances of Gilmour's entry to the band its unsurprising that there is some debate as to whose technique it was. I think Gilmour's more classical, studied technique was pretty different from Syd's choppy Cropper-influenced style.

I would say under Waters' and Gilmour's direction the band headed towards 'downer' music, whereas there is usually an 'upness' to Syd's music, even in the more painful of his solo works. As far as the Wall goes, I kind of think 'what the hell was Waters thinking?' In these media-savvy times of now, it seems obvious that mixing fact and fiction and making a movie referring to someone very much alive would impact on their public profile and directly on to their everyday life. I'm no blanket Waters basher, but being generous I would say he was very naive at the least.

[scarecrow]

On a slight tangent:

The first and last voices ever heard on a Pink Floyd album belong not to any member of the band but to their managers. Floyd’s 1967 debut, The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, opens with the track Astronomy Domine and co-manager Peter Jenner narrating astronomical data through a megaphone. The last voice heard on the last Floyd album, 1994’s The Division Bell, is that of the band’s late manager Steve O’Rourke, speaking to guitarist David Gilmour’s son Charlie on the telephone, and accidentally recorded on the Gilmour family’s ansaphone machine.

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[crowman]

There's a line in "If It's In You" that always makes me think about a Pink Floyd song:

Barrett: Please hold on to the steel rail.

Waters: Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A few years later Roger would ask.

Really minor thing, but I always link the two lyrics in my mind. Given that WYWH was mainly about Syd (and that Roger recorded "If It's In You") I wonder if Waters was referencing Barrett's lyric in that line or if it was just a coincidence.

I think it's more than a coincidence. Consiously or unconsciously, the "steel rail" could have stuck in Water's memory.

And remember, Roger was in the control room for the recording of that song, which must have been an exasperating experience.