Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate This Album

5 - Best
13
10%
4
29
21%
3
37
27%
2
26
19%
1- Worst
31
23%
 
Total votes: 136

battra
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by battra »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:05 am
battra wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:36 pm Oh, but when I stated the Pink Floyd albums that I felt were better...you said no not those....
One last time: I wasn't only comparing Roger's "later work" (post-Pros and Cons) to their classic albums...I was comparing it to The Final Cut and Pros and Cons, because even though they were commercial duds, they are exponentially better than anything he's made since.
battra wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:36 pm Dude.

Are you ok, man?
You might wanna find an online support group for adults with limited reading comprehension skills, in the language of your choice. This is just the English-language online support group for people that take Pink Floyd too seriously.
You: His prior work.

Me: you mean his prior work that's considered amazing by one and and all and non-fans alike?

You: No. You dumb. How dare you not know the specific album I'm referring to that I didn't refer to by name till you asked me thrice!!!

:)

Seriously dude, you're taking this waaaaay too seriously. It's just an internet chat board.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by theaussiefloydian »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:05 am You might wanna find an online support group for adults with limited reading comprehension skills, in the language of your choice. This is just the English-language online support group for people that take Pink Floyd too seriously.
Look mate I've been agreeing with a lot of your points about these albums and such but this is getting a little hostile, innit? We should be keeping it mellow. We're all friends here.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:55 am this is getting a little hostile, innit?
Hey, I directed part of that joke at myself. I'm sure he didn't read it anyway but he'll continue to reply to let us know that he didn't read it.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by battra »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 am
theaussiefloydian wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:55 am this is getting a little hostile, innit?
Hey, I directed part of that joke at myself. I'm sure he didn't read it anyway but he'll continue to reply to let us know that he didn't read it.
Image

Seriously, dude.

We're just talkin' about a band here.

We're all gonna love and dislike different bits.

Based on a post of yours I saw in a different thread, I get it, you got on at a different point that me. Our entry point always has a special place in our hearts.

It's all good.

I think I like all the albums, save Ummagumma fuck that album.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by theaussiefloydian »

battra wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:17 pm I think I like all the albums, save Ummagumma fuck that album.
I'm probably setting myself up here, but I actually don't mind Ummagumma either. It won't win any Grammy's any time soon, but I must admit to enjoying it (the live record more than the studio record, admittedly).
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by battra »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:00 pm
battra wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:17 pm I think I like all the albums, save Ummagumma fuck that album.
I'm probably setting myself up here, but I actually don't mind Ummagumma either. It won't win any Grammy's any time soon, but I must admit to enjoying it (the live record more than the studio record, admittedly).
It's all taste an opinion.

But it is the only one I don't enjoy even a little.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by DarkSideFreak »

Well, I like Ummagumma, and I also think that Amused to Death is better than The Final Cut (aside from the conceptual element). Sorry, what was the question again? :(

Oh, and hearing the live versions of (finally!) the entire AMLOR album live finally convinced me I did, actually, want to award the album the "best" rating. Yes, I love those songs. Deal with it 8)
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:49 pm
Yucateco wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:25 amI must have somehow missed those albums with enjoyable music.
Sorry about your luck. Even on Gilmour's last two tours, less than half of the show was Roger-era material, even though they could've fit several more songs in place of "Sorrow" and "High Hopes", but at the shows I attended, those two songs got the same reaction as "Shine On You Crazy Diamond".
I agree. Sorrow was a... not quite surprise? Since I had seen the setlists. But it was a major highlight, proving that song's endurance. With hindsight, it's interesting to look at DG's choice to resurrect Sorrow and WDYWFM. I assume he was already involved to some degree with The Later Years, and this probably gave way to reassessing those songs, as well as including Money and Run Like Hell, both of which were mainstays of the late-era Floyd set.
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:49 pm Well according to Roger, you don't buy enough of his albums to make it worth his while to perform them. He considered touring Amused to Death after it was released, but only "if it sold between three to four million worldwide. I'd have to feel sure in my own mind that there was enough interest." Yes, he was in a bad place, and had been let down by fans, and had hemorrhaged money since leaving the band, but he never considered moving forward on a scale more proportionate to his fanbase - he just stopped making albums for the next quarter of a century. The timeline is interesting, because artists made less and less from album sales through the 1990s, and more and more from ticket sales. Gilmour repeatedly turned down huge amounts of money to continue touring after Pulse was released, with even Roger trying to get him onboard with a full tour after Live 8, which he promptly shot down.
I'm not entirely sure about the significance of this, though. Roger's first three solo albums came up against 1) the competition of his former band (when PACOHH came out, PF were not officially disbanded; KAOS and ATD were clearly overwhelmed by AMLOR) and 2) the fact that Roger had not built his name as a solo artist yet. Even if I think PF without him clearly had stronger music than Roger without PF, it's fair to point this out. He did compete against himself to a degree. Had he managed to keep 3-man Floyd together and done those solo albums under the Floyd name, they would have sold more (as you can see by the fact that The Final Cut, even if it's a commercial disappointment compared to previous albums, still charted higher than his solo records). David had the same problem with About Face.

I think Roger's big mistake was, after finally gaining a solid following with the In the Flesh tour, not capitalizing on it. Of course, at that time he probably didn't realize PF were essentially done with TDB, but there was a vacuum that opened up, and David filled that with OAI and a sort of half-Floyd tour. For somebody who always wanted to be creative and threw four LPs worth of material at the band in 1978, it IS indeed remarkable he couldn't come up with more than a few orphaned tracks in that long period. Still, doing those DSOTM and Wall tours raised his profile to the point where the reissue of ATD actually charted higher than the original, and ITTLWRW got a lot of attention and praise. But I feel time won't be kind to the album - take away the lyrics, and the music is so indistinct it might not even be there. By comparison, songs like Learning to Fly, On the Turning Away, Sorrow and High Hopes will survive because they have their merits, and even if the lyrics aren't spectacular, they are still better than the majority of pop music. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, David would've not wanted to touch a lyric like "wake up and smell the phosphorus, who knows, it may be a loss for us" or "and the piano lid comes down and breaks his fucking fingers" with a ten foot pig. He already didn't want to sing Have a Cigar because the lyrics weren't to his liking. If someone had been able to keep ol' Rog in "hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" or "you wore out your welcome with random precision" mode, things would've been different. They grew apart and I'd rather get what they could come up with separately than watch two people who've become incompatible suffering just because they feel obliged to fulfill the fans' wishes.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by azza200 »

excellent post and i agree with a lot of it because they are strong valid points
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:46 pmI'm not entirely sure about the significance of this, though.
DarkSideFreak wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:46 pmI think Roger's big mistake was, after finally gaining a solid following with the In the Flesh tour, not capitalizing on it.
The significance is that Roger did capitalize on it, following twelve years of accusing David of doing the same thing in nearly every interview he gave. Rather than making albums his way, whether or not they were appreciated by (in his words) "the great unwashed", he simply acknowledged that they wouldn't be profitable and he stopped. The stadium tours that hated enough to write The Wall now bring in so much money that he's launching his fifth one next year.
DarkSideFreak wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:46 pmHad he managed to keep 3-man Floyd together and done those solo albums under the Floyd name, they would have sold more (as you can see by the fact that The Final Cut, even if it's a commercial disappointment compared to previous albums, still charted higher than his solo records).
Similar to my conclusion that Roger's involvement with The Momentary Lapse of Reason could have made it worse...Pink Floyd following up The Final Cut with Pros and Cons and/or Radio KAOS? Career suicide. They too would've had to lay low for a decade before embarking on a greatest hits tour to rebuild their status. It's not like Pink Floyd's sound was outdated by the mid-'80s; Dark Side of the Moon stayed in the Top 200 all the way through until July of 1988, and even reappeared a couple months later. Roger's albums didn't sound anything like Pink Floyd, and they didn't sound like anything else that was popular at that time. As Gilmour put it, "The Final Cut did real damage to the band. We're having to fight back from it now."
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:29 amThe significance is that Roger did capitalize on it, following twelve years of accusing David of doing the same thing in nearly every interview he gave. Rather than making albums his way, whether or not they were appreciated by (in his words) "the great unwashed", he simply acknowledged that they wouldn't be profitable and he stopped. The stadium tours that hated enough to write The Wall now bring in so much money that he's launching his fifth one next year.
I mean in the sense of selling albums on the strength of the success of the ITF tour. Monetarily speaking, On an Island probably didn't make anywhere as much money as The Division Bell, but it sure made more than About Face, and that's kind of my point. Of course the Live 8 reunion might also have put a focus on PF that David could use. Imagine Roger had managed to follow Live 8 up with an album of his own? <.8.>
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:29 amSimilar to my conclusion that Roger's involvement with The Momentary Lapse of Reason could have made it worse...Pink Floyd following up The Final Cut with Pros and Cons and/or Radio KAOS? Career suicide. They too would've had to lay low for a decade before embarking on a greatest hits tour to rebuild their status. It's not like Pink Floyd's sound was outdated by the mid-'80s; Dark Side of the Moon stayed in the Top 200 all the way through until July of 1988, and even reappeared a couple months later. Roger's albums didn't sound anything like Pink Floyd, and they didn't sound like anything else that was popular at that time. As Gilmour put it, "The Final Cut did real damage to the band. We're having to fight back from it now."
I don't necessarily disagree but a name is still a name. Rather like people who keep insisting Roger Hodgson is the genius behind Supertramp, yet his solo albums didn't get anywhere near the success he enjoyed as part of the band. And even if Some Things Never Change gets panned by critics and some fans (I love it), it was still a Top 5 album here in Germany, something Roger has not achieved. Names (brands) aren't unimportant.

It's not even like The Final Cut was a million miles away from The Wall musically, which was a huge success. There are way too many "ifs" in the story that we can completely say that the album was simply so bad that it didn't sell well. It didn't have the big disco single. But imagine there would have been a tour for TFC? That sure would've helped sales. (Of course, Roger toured his first two solo albums, but again, he was out on his own.)
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:33 pm I don't necessarily disagree but a name is still a name.
DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:33 pm Names (brands) aren't unimportant.
DarkSideFreak wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:33 pm But imagine there would have been a tour for TFC? That sure would've helped sales. (Of course, Roger toured his first two solo albums, but again, he was out on his own.)
FAST-FORWARD TO PRESENT DAY...

Roger Waters is very much a brand name now; The Wall Live was (currently) the 6th largest-grossing tour in history, and was attended by 4,129,863 people. That number is much larger than his combined solo album sales, and larger than the total Final Cut sales. People went to see and hear The Wall, but had to acknowledge Roger Waters as a songwriter, conceptual artist, and performer to do so, and yet these other albums have not been "rediscovered" or re-evaluated in the past decade. He once complained that most Pink Floyd fans don't understand the differences between Dark Side of the Moon and Division Bell, but they clearly notice a difference between The Wall and The Final Cut.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by theaussiefloydian »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:17 pm He once complained that most Pink Floyd fans don't understand the differences between Dark Side of the Moon and Division Bell, but they clearly notice a difference between The Wall and The Final Cut.
This sounds a little facetious on his part, as I'm pretty sure if you stopped any Pink Floyd fan on the street and asked them the difference between Dark Side and Division Bell they'd have a pretty strong idea. And there is a noticeable difference in The Wall and The Final Cut, though not necessarily musically (though the music on the latter is a touch more 80s than the former). To me you can almost hear the band having a miserable time recording Final Cut, especially on tracks like "Paranoid Eyes". That's one of the reasons I'll take The Division Bell over The Final Cut any day - because on the former you can at least tell the band are enjoying playing together.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:33 pm I'm pretty sure if you stopped any Pink Floyd fan on the street and asked them the difference between Dark Side and Division Bell they'd have a pretty strong idea.
The average Pink Floyd fan only owns Dark Side of the Moon and/or The Wall, and never bought another one of their albums, just like the majority of people that attend Roger's shows don't actually buy Roger's records. But the fact that Dark Side re-entered the charts during the Momentary Lapse tour says a lot - specifically, that these were new Pink Floyd fans. So, if you did quiz people on the street and they were familiar with the later albums, they may very well rank them on the same level. Folks like us with enough free time to join a forum and nitpick the details of their history have fallen in and out of love with some of these albums repeatedly; I was definitely burned out on Dark Side for a long time and couldn't stand it. There are albums that you have to listen to multiple times to understand and appreciate them, and there are some that simply reveal some very questionable elements the more you dig into them; that's probably where I am with most of Roger's work at the moment.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by theaussiefloydian »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:55 pm So, if you did quiz people on the street and they were familiar with the later albums, they may very well rank them on the same level.
That is true (personally Division Bell is a top 5 choice for me, as I've said elsewhere), but wasn't exactly my point.
theaussiefloydian wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:33 pm as I'm pretty sure if you stopped any Pink Floyd fan on the street and asked them the difference between Dark Side and Division Bell they'd have a pretty strong idea.
I meant that they are very different albums, their quality notwithstanding, and that I think it was facetious of Waters to say that most Floyd fans wouldn't see those differences. I probably didn't make that clear enough in my wording though, so apologies for that.
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Re: Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

Post by Gslatner »

This a crazy thread and is all over the place. I personally like Momentary Lapse of Reason and will listen to it 10:1 over The Final Cut. Is it their most cohesive work? No, but it’s pleasant to listen to and sounds like Pink Floyd to me. I think Sorrow, especially live is one of the better PF songs ever. By commercial standards you can still hear Learning to Fly on an given day playing somewhere and Terminal Frost is a very smooth listen no matter what my mood. Someone mentioned Roger would have made the record worse, I totally agree.