Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate this album

5 - Best
21
30%
4
9
13%
3
20
28%
2
6
8%
1 - Worst
15
21%
 
Total votes: 71

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mosespa
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

I've always thought that the title Shine On You Crazy Diamond (with every other first letter spelling out SYD) was a bit of a rip on Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. (LSD, of course.)

As for PACOHH...I'm rather startled to hear so many people refer to the musical integrity of an album that has, like, two chord changes throughout the whole thing.

To me, PACOHH is mind-numbingly dull to listen to. The lyrics may be great (and I think people here will agree that I'm known for being a huge supporter of the "Lyrics Are More Important Than Music" school of thinking,) but I just can't get past the fact that pretty much the entire musical content of the album can be summed up in an acoustic guitar going:

Dummmmmm
Dadummmmm
Dummmmmm
Dadummmmm

The Final Cut is MUCH stronger musically (in my opinion.)
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by Zack »

kitkat wrote:Crowman, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I know Plastic Ono Band album very well...being Lennon's best solo album....and I dont see ANY of the connections that you described.
Dude you must be joking! :D

The main melody of the whole first side of Pros and cons (the "dummmm-dadummm" thing that mossy just did there) IS the first five seconds of Working Class Hero - in a different key perhaps.

Put on Isolation and tell me that "you're just a human, a victim of the in-sa-a-a-ane!" is not copped directly for "his dream is driving me in-sa-a-a-ne!"

Incidentally, the whole "dry" vs. "fat" sound argument from the DSOM era was based on the Creative Genius of Pink Floyd's love of the sparse, echo-laden production on - you guessed it.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

Yeah...The Genius even said that himself. :D
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by kitkat »

Crownman, back to your original point:

"As for Working Class Hero, well Roger was never shy about using bits of Plastic Ono Band: songs called Mother, "Remember when you were young", the intro to Gunner's Dream (Isolation) and "Shine On" from Instant Karma. You can see the lyrical influence of Working Class Hero in "Dogs" too."


Yes, I get the "duuuuuum daduuuuum duuuuuum daduuuuuum part. But, thats it.

The Isolation/ Gunner's Dream is a stretch for sure.

A VICTIM OF THE INSAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE is not the same as This dream, is driving me INSAAAAAAAANE other than they both use the word insane in a loud fashion. Not a copying issue imo at all.

But your other comparisons, which you didnt even try to defend, I just dont even begin to see what you are talking about:

1) Mother. Yeah, both songs are about moms. Lennon's was about his mom specifically...about how she left him (to be cared for by Mimi). Waters' song was about ALL mothers who are over-protective and put their fears into their children. In fact, the true history of Waters is that his mom was the opposite of the song that he wrote about. The song talks about a mom not letting "dirty girls get through" but in his life, his commy mom wanted him to find dirty girls so he wouldnt get serious or something. the exact opposite of the song. So, other than the title, there is no comparison and it is a serious stretch.

2) Your point: "Remember when you were young", the intro to Gunner's Dream (Isolation) and "Shine On" from Instant Karma. You can see the lyrical influence of Working Class Hero in "Dogs" too." I simply have no idea what you are talking about there.

Yes, I am aware that The Genius wanted a dryer sound for DSOTM. This shows that even The Genius needs somebody to work with and articulate dissent a la Ezrin or Gilmour although Gilmour's inability to articulate in the English language made it difficult.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by jtull »

kitkat wrote:...although Gilmour's inability to articulate in the English language made it difficult.
:lol:

So you mean Dave is sort of anti-genius, or what? :wink:
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by kitkat »

Exactly!!! :lol:
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by princessDungan74D »

I like this album. Its a little weird hearing Roger singing about sex or whatever dream it was.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

Personally, I think Einstein's strongest album is Radio KAOS. I've got nothing against Amused To Death (other than a few of the songs suggest that perhaps Mr. Depp should have spent a little more time with them than he did.)

If there's anything the last couple of years have proven to me, it's that Kevin Spacey NEEDS David Gilmour (or someone willing to do what Gilmour was willing to do,) to tell him "No, Mr. Hawking...that's not good enough to get on. Go home, write something else and bring it in tomorrow."

Which is how Oppenheimer ended up composing "Nobody Home."

As a solo artist in complete control, Bill Gates is surrounded by a bunch of people too afraid of pissing him off and getting fired to make such suggestions to him.

It's unfortunate. *shrug*
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by kitkat »

Uh, I get the Einstein one. And the Bill Gates one....and the Hawking one.

But...I dont get the Kevin Spacey and the Mr. Depp ones. :lol:

And yeah, I agree with you that Stephen Hawkin needs someone to criticize him and not be afraid to piss him off....unfortunately, its not in the cards now. Maybe if Ezrin wouldnt have stabbed him in the back like a fricking prick, we might have gotten another Wall or something. Ezrin wouldve pushed back...like he did during The Wall.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

You're obviously not evolved enough to see the genius that both Spacey and Depp possess, then. :P

As I understand it, Ezrin wasn't aware that the description of the show that he gave to a "friend" on the phone was going to end up in print.

It's not as if he was TRYING to spoil things for His Rogerness.

Maybe your beloved genius shouldn't have turned Ezrin out like he did.

There's fault on both sides, like it or not.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by kitkat »

Yeah thats true. Waters was too sensitive on that. But, he later repented, got counseling, and even apologized to Ezrin for being a prick, which for The Genius, is quite a step, and then Ezrin did something that boggles the mind....He decided to do Permanent Lapse of Creativity instead of working with The Genius.

Think about it...he chose to work with a 2-man pretend-a-floyd (Gilmour and Mason). Yeah...MASON FOR F SAKES!!! NICK MASON!!!!! The guitar player and NICK MASON. That boggles the mind.

I mean, what the F dude? What an ahole. But, I guess he didnt trust The Genius' apology and he chose the lesser path instead of working for another Wall or something.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

No...you see, after that apology, your beloved genius invited Ezrin to totally uproot his entire family from their home in California to travel to England and work for God knows how long (Roger, apparently, promised that it would only take a few months, but Ezrin knew better.) Your beloved genius was (apparently) completely unsympathetic with the needs of Ezrin's family...Gilmour wasn't.

Which is why Ezrin chose to work with Gilmour. He had a family not only to support (via the cash from working on either one of the two albums,) but also with a certain amount of presence (as in actually BEING there for them.)

Gilmour was willing to accomodate. Waters, apparently, was not.

Again, kitkat...learn your PF history before you go spouting off your one-sided version of it and you'll end up looking like much less of a pratt. :D
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by kitkat »

oh cmon dude. You know that is a bunch of bologna. Pink Fraud/ Ezrin propoganda. A fig leaf to hide the embarrassment of what Ezrin did.

Genius says we can do it in 3 months. Ezrin says, yeah great, lets go. Ezrin is also contacted by Pink Floyd's former guitarist and Pink Floyd's former drummer who cant drum for shit, and they say, hey, we will give you a better cut, and you know how hard it is to work with the Genius and we can bring in a few hundred people to sound like The Genius and Ezrin decides to take the tempation and go for the lower bar...like a pussy.

Sure, working with The Genius is more difficult than working with Nick Mason, who cant drum for shit and never bothered even practicing or trying, and Gilmour who has no spine and so Ezrin knew he could push people around and have an easier time. It had nothing to do with family as it is a fact of life that Ezrin spent MUCH MUCH longer than 3 months working on Permanent Lapse than he wouldve had to spend on an album with The Genius.

For hells sake, they spent a couple months on Gilmours boat just flaking about. Thats a fact. Then they record some crap, and the record company is like "what is this shit? We aint putting this shit out...it sounds nothing like Pink Floyd", so they had to spend another bunch of months to record masterpieces like Dogs of War and Terminal Frost and New Machine. I mean, holy shit dude.

So, Ezrin is the guy who contributed heavily to the greatest album of all time, The Wall...but he is also the Judas Iscariot that sold his soul for an easier 3 months and produce an absolute charade with a team of 1238 people trying to sound like Roger Waters.

It had nothing to do with family, thats an excuse after the fact. Unless you actually believe the wild wild coincidence that Gilmour contacted Ezrin for the first time one week after he decided his family was too valuable to work with The Genius. I mean cmon. All he had to say was, hey genius, I need to bring my family...or I need to go home 4 times or whatever. Genius wouldve worked with him..... just a bunch of bull crap dude.

If you have any other Floyd misunderstandings, just let me know. I am always happy to help people who understand Floyd less than I do. :D
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by snifferdog »

Wow. You really must have been a fly on several walls at the time to know all this for certain.
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Re: Roger Waters - The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking

Post by mosespa »

The following mossification is dedicated to moom. :D
kitkat wrote:1. Genius says we can do it in 3 months.

2. Ezrin says, yeah great, lets go.

3. Ezrin is also contacted by Pink Floyd's former guitarist and Pink Floyd's former drummer who cant drum for shit, and they say, hey, we will give you a better cut, and you know how hard it is to work with the Genius and we can bring in a few hundred people to sound like The Genius and Ezrin decides to take the tempation and go for the lower bar...like a pussy.

4. It had nothing to do with family as it is a fact of life that Ezrin spent MUCH MUCH longer than 3 months working on Permanent Lapse than he wouldve had to spend on an album with The Genius.

5. For hells sake, they spent a couple months on Gilmours boat just flaking about.

6. Thats a fact.

7. Then they record some crap, and the record company is like "what is this shit? We aint putting this shit out...it sounds nothing like Pink Floyd",

8. so they had to spend another bunch of months to record masterpieces like Dogs of War and Terminal Frost and New Machine.

9. I mean, holy shit dude.

10. So, Ezrin is the guy who contributed heavily to the greatest album of all time, The Wall...but he is also the Judas Iscariot that sold his soul for an easier 3 months and produce an absolute charade with a team of 1238 people trying to sound like Roger Waters.

11. It had nothing to do with family, thats an excuse after the fact. Unless you actually believe the wild wild coincidence that Gilmour contacted Ezrin for the first time one week after he decided his family was too valuable to work with The Genius. I mean cmon.

12. All he had to say was, hey genius, I need to bring my family...or I need to go home 4 times or whatever. Genius wouldve worked with him..... just a bunch of bull crap dude.

13. If you have any other Floyd misunderstandings, just let me know. I am always happy to help people who understand Floyd less than I do. :D
1. Genius says we can do it in three months. Genius also required about a year and a half to knock The Wall into shape with Ezrin's help. Granted, The Wall's a double album...but still. Divide eighteen months in half and you still have a heck of a lot longer than three months.

2. Actually, Ezrin said "yeah, right. Three months my ass."

3. I'll come back to this at point 11...but suffice it to say for now that I don't think that's quite how it happened.

4. Yes...and that time was divided between Gilmour's home in England and Ezrin's home in the US. Gilmour was willing to accommodate Ezrin fully.

Who would you rather work with? A guy who says that he wants you to come help him with something, but you've gotta do it on his terms...or a guy who wants you to help him with something and is willing to accommodate you?

5. Yeah...and those months were evidently during a time when Ezrin could be in England without putting his family out.

6. So is what I just said there.

7. Right. So, they high-tailed to to LA so that Ezrin could get back to spending time with his family after clocking out of the studio.

8. In LA. That's kind of key.

9. I'm saying. :D

10. Easier gig...better pay...benefits package out the ass.

Like you wouldn't quit your current job for one that offered more pay for less work and you could split your work days between home and the office?

Don't make me say "nigga pleeze."

Because I will. :lol:

11. At least Gilmour waited a week. He could have called Ezrin as soon as he heard that Waters had been in contact with the guy.

But he didn't.

And by your own admission...he waited a week.

Nice shooting, guy. How's the foot? :P

12. He did say that, actually. Waters said "no."

13. I don't seem to be the one laboring under misunderstandings right now. But I extend the same invitation to you, kitkat. :D