Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

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danielcaux
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by danielcaux »

Pat Albertson wrote:I would imagine that even Roger now looks upon this appalling fiasco as some kind of bad dream.
You call a 250.000 people concert a "fiasco"? :shock:

Yes, I know it was plagued with problems, but it got made afterall, right? and I didn't like much the guests performances either (although I do love Sinead's version of Mother, even better than the original), but all those different "flavors" of music/people playing was a big part of the whole "comunal" spirit of the event: celebrating the fall of the Berlin Wall both physically and psicologically. The Wall is about tolerance, comunication, empathy, it's about creating bonds between human beings, and that was the feeling the concert left in everybody, such a diverse array of performers, personalities, generations all in one place, side by side, hand in hand sending one big message; it was like Roger's mini-version of a Live Aid concert, no wonder he chose The Tide is Turning as the closing track.

It seems that some of you have missed the whole point of the event, it was not supposed to be just another accurate rendition of a regular 80-81 Wall concert, it was a celebration, a party over the ashes of the Berlin Wall.
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Idisaffect »

danielcaux wrote: The Wall is about tolerance, comunication, empathy, it's about creating bonds between human beings, and that was the feeling the concert left in everybody, such a diverse array of performers, personalities, generations all in one place, side by side, hand in hand sending one big message; it was like Roger's mini-version of a Live Aid concert, no wonder he chose The Tide is Turning as the closing track.

It seems that some of you have missed the whole point of the event, it was not supposed to be just another accurate rendition of a regular 80-81 Wall concert, it was a celebration, a party over the ashes of the Berlin Wall.

Which he packaged and sold as a product in the shops. I'm sure it was amazing to be there but as a cd/video it is pretty much useless. Low point.
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa »

danielcaux wrote:1. You call a 250.000 people concert a "fiasco"? :shock:

Yes, I know it was plagued with problems,...

2. but it got made afterall, right? and I didn't like much the guests performances either (although I do love Sinead's version of Mother, even better than the original), but all those different "flavors" of music/people playing was a big part of the whole "comunal" spirit of the event: celebrating the fall of the Berlin Wall both physically and psicologically.
1. "...plagued with problems..." = "fiasco."

The word "fiasco" isn't used to refer to the number of the crowd or success of the album or anything. The actual show itself as it happened is not what's on the dvd. There is a VOIO of the show as it was broadcast by television (before all the post-production salvaging...which is considerable,) find a copy of it and you'll see what a fiasco the concert itself really was.

2. Yes, eventually it was salvaged into a marketable product (whose profits, by the way, are collected by the Memorial Fund For Disaster Relief,) but by focusing so much on the Berlin Wall thing, the piece loses much of it's initial meaning, imo.

Roger stated that he was staging the show as a celebration of the individual victory over the state, or something like that; but to me, The Wall is a story of an individual's victory over himself.

It's a totally different thing...and I think the Berlin association kind of locks it into a specific place and time.

Idisaffect wrote:
danielcaux wrote: The Wall is about tolerance, comunication, empathy, it's about creating bonds between human beings, and that was the feeling the concert left in everybody, such a diverse array of performers, personalities, generations all in one place, side by side, hand in hand sending one big message; it was like Roger's mini-version of a Live Aid concert, no wonder he chose The Tide is Turning as the closing track.

It seems that some of you have missed the whole point of the event, it was not supposed to be just another accurate rendition of a regular 80-81 Wall concert, it was a celebration, a party over the ashes of the Berlin Wall.

Which he packaged and sold as a product in the shops. I'm sure it was amazing to be there but as a cd/video it is pretty much useless. Low point.
See the parenthetical statement in point two above. :lol:

As an aside back to danielcaux: I didn't miss the point of the show at all. The show was designed to raise money for the Memorial Fund For Disaster Relief.

I certainly didn't raise the full 5 million pounds that Group Captain Chesire was hoping for, though I'm sure it's helped the fund get closer.
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy »

mosespa wrote:Roger stated that he was staging the show as a celebration of the individual victory over the state, or something like that; but to me, The Wall is a story of an individual's victory over himself.
Well judging by the lyrics in 'Stop' and the outcome of 'The Trial' it's likely the way he broke the wall was to die lol if you call that a victory..
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa »

How do you figure?

"Stop
I wanna go home
Take off this uniform and leave the show
And I'm waiting in this cell because I have to know
Have I been guilty all this time?"

Where do you get any "death" in those lyrics? Or the outcome of The Trial, for that matter?
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy »

Well "The Show" is life as far as I can tell. Do you agree with me there?

He wants to leave "The Show" so he wants to die if "The Show" is life.

The only reason he's waiting in his "cell" is to find out if hes guilty. The way I took it was his cell was himself, he was the thing preventing him from being free. Again just speculation.
(I like that he's waiting to find out if he's guilty because "The Trial" is within himself so its guilt culture masquerading as a shame culture so him guilty being guilty actually refers to the way he's feeling and not the ruling of a judge. It's actually the only reason I mentioned this line. :lol: )

The outcome of "The Trial" is him being found guilty so he has nothing left to wait for takes of his uniform and leaves the show. I could be taking it completely wrong though :lol:

Read your article by the way. Very good, true too.


EDIT: also hes coming of his high by that stage because he seems to realise hes not dictator
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom »

Stop comes immediately after Waiting For The Worms, in which Pink is both waiting for the trial and acting like a dictator. But he does not want to be one. All he ever needed was to be loved, understood and free. But the people he loved never gave him that, or gave love too much. That's the hardest in life, - when you love someone, but he hurts you. One day you wake up and find yourself mad, numb. You see the problem and want to fix it. And it takes changing the world around you. That's why Pink had become a dictator in the first place. But then he realized he overreacted, seeing he had taken away from people what had been taken away from him - freedom (Run Like Hell). Thus, victim became criminal itself. Deep inside, he's still a good guy and hates himself for being bad on the outside. That's why he wants to leave the show - the show is probably the concert in In The Flesh. The cell he's waiting for the trial in is probably not just a virtual prison, but also Pink the dictator. And the Worm His Honor, judging him, is he himself, because only Pink really knows his issues and knows what kind of person he is supposed to be, not what he is at the moment (the dictator that is on the outside). The trial, thus, is Pink's realization of his own mistakes and admitting them. And will to fix them (Outside The Wall). Because I do not see him trying to help himself before side 4 by simply talking to mother, teacher, wife, etc. He got kinda comfortable with those problems. He got mad occasionally, but that was it.
Now it is time to communicate. If the world still won't listen... well, find a better place then ;) .
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

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No Pink was never a dictator. He was hallucenating due to the drugs he had taken, the stuff the doctor gave him didnt actually make him better it just brought him back to conciousness. I see the show as the need for life to continue even after he has sealed himself off completely (The Show Must Go On).

I wonder what Waters actually did mean by most of The Wall and if it was as profound as people speculate (I, personally, doubt it :lol: )
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom »

I edited my last post, so please pay attention to this if you're already reading that post.

Now, Pink was not a dictator in real life, but those hallucinations showed clearly he was in his soul. On the outskirts of his soul, not deep inside.
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

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But the wall he built up stopped anything from coming into contact with his soul and vice versa so if he was a dictator in any poart of his soul, no matter how far out, it wouldn't have made it out of his wall which is why I think he wasn't a dictator at all not inside, not out so he couldn't have hurt anyone after the wall was sealed so he wouldnt feel guilty about it and if he was a dictator in his soul he wouldn't feel guilty about that either because its what he is.

Ok I'd also like to point out that there are no shots of Pink after the wall has been torn down. I think Roger says that Outside the Wall was the next generation cleaning up or something like that (not to sure, i'll check later) which means it's not Pink himself cleaning up the pieces but the people left behind (because every generation leaves behind another)
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom »

Duckboy wrote:But the wall he built up stopped anything from coming into contact wit hhis soul and vice versa so if he was a dictator in any poart of his soul, no matter how far out, it wouldn't have made it out of his wall which is why I think he wasn't a dictator at all not inside, not out.

Ok I'd also like to point out that there are no shots of Pink after the wall has been torn down. I think Roger says that Outside the Wall was the next generation cleaning up or something like that (not to sure, i'll check later) which means it's not Pink himself cleaning up the pieces but the people left behind (because every generation leaves behind another)
1. Apparently, it didn't. We do hear his inner voice, so does he.
2. But hey, then there's Hey You missing, though it has been filmed... And breaking the wall only means getting free, not necessarily death, - there's absolutely no talk about death in lyrics. We can only guess what really happened next, - an open ending...

OH WAIT :D !!!

"I SENTENCE YOU TO BE EXPOSED BEFORE YOUR FEARS!!!" What's the point of death then ;) !? Check mate :D !
Last edited by moom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy »

I edited the first point because i found it kind of weak i hoped you would see it before you posted obviously not :lol:

an open ending which i choose to take as pink is dead :lol:
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom »

I added something to my last post as well ;)
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy »

I always thought it said peers, i'll have to check now but it seems to make more sense becasue he mentions fear a little earlier.

If it is peers: pink exposes his self loathing to the world by killing himself
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Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom »

Nonetheless, exposed. How do you expose by killing yourself :lol:

Quote: his inner judge ordering him to "tear down the wall" in order to open himself to the outside world, and apologizing to his closest friends who are hurt most by his self-isolation.

I know it's Wiki, but... that's a more likely way, imho.

Also, the album is a cycle, so there's no end to it. Just put it on repeat :lol:

It also says "Originally the film was intended to be intercut with concert footage and a few of the live shows were actually filmed, but subsequently not used in the film at all. Footage from these concerts has appeared on different websites from time to time and on YouTube. However, an official release of this footage by Pink Floyd has not been authorized other than what was used in the documentary Behind the Wall." Are those the clips from a show in 1980? Sorry for a small off-topic.