Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate this album

5 - Best
5
11%
4
5
11%
3
9
20%
2
14
32%
1 - Rate this
11
25%
 
Total votes: 44

Duckboy
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 am
Gender: Male

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:31 am

Yes I can.

And Pink created his wall himself, yes?

User avatar
danielcaux
Supreme Judge!
Supreme Judge!
Posts: 2546
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:25 am
Location: Abya Yala

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by danielcaux » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:32 am

mosespa wrote:It's not interpretive at all. If it were, I don't think he (Waters) would have taken such great pains to create a definite story to illustrate through the songs.
All works of art have multiple levels of interpretation, the author's conscious point of view is only one of them.

Duckboy
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 am
Gender: Male

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:37 am

danielcaux wrote:
mosespa wrote:It's not interpretive at all. If it were, I don't think he (Waters) would have taken such great pains to create a definite story to illustrate through the songs.
All works of art have multiple levels of interpretation, the author's conscious point of view is only one of them.
Yes but Rogers is the only important one :lol:

User avatar
mosespa
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11186
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:54 pm
Location: In the editing bay...working on the final cut...

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:38 am

Duckboy wrote:Yes I can.

And Pink created his wall himself, yes?
Well, Pink blamed it on his wife, mother, schoolmaster, death of his father, etc. etc.

But yes...he actually built it himself.
danielcaux wrote:
mosespa wrote:It's not interpretive at all. If it were, I don't think he (Waters) would have taken such great pains to create a definite story to illustrate through the songs.
All works of art have multiple levels of interpretation, the author's conscious point of view is only one of them.
I disagree. Without the author's conscious point of view, the work of art could never have come into being to begin with.

I believe that while all interpretations can be valid, there is still an objective statement being made by the author.

You can interpret The Wall to mean "that we all live like Italians" (to quote something R.PITI has probably forgotten that he threw at me once, :lol: ) but there is still the fact that Roger intended it to convey that "trying to solve a problem in terms created by the problem only leads to other problems."

A person can interpret The Wall to be the story of a giant ass stomping around in search of his flame-headed wife who is being held captive by the wicked schoolmaster and the mother of the hammers...but the fact remains that when Roger set out to tell the story, the ass was the judge in The Trial, the flame-headed wife is Pink's and not that of the ass and she's not being held captive by the schoolmaster, etc. etc. etc.

Regardless of one's personal interpretation (which may still be valid) there is STILL an inherent point being made which I feel supercedes any outside interpretation of the work.

In other words, I consider my interpretation to be less important than what the author was actually trying to say.

In fact, my interpretation could lead to a failure of the author to get his point across...which then renders his attempt futile; as I see it.

I'm not interested in frustrating artists. :D

Duckboy
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 am
Gender: Male

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:43 am

mosespa wrote:
Duckboy wrote:Yes I can.

And Pink created his wall himself, yes?
Well, Pink blamed it on his wife, mother, schoolmaster, death of his father, etc. etc.

But yes...he actually built it himself.
Well Pinks wall is representing Rogers barrier between himself and the audience. If Pinks wall is self created then Rogers barrier is self created. Do you still agree?

If not then 'The Wall' according to Rogers idea of the barrier is flawed and as such is no better than anyone elses ideas on 'The Wall'.

User avatar
mosespa
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11186
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:54 pm
Location: In the editing bay...working on the final cut...

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:14 am

Duckboy wrote:1. Well Pinks wall is representing Rogers barrier between himself and the audience.

2. If Pinks wall is self created then Rogers barrier is self created. Do you still agree?

3. If not then 'The Wall' according to Rogers idea of the barrier is flawed and as such is no better than anyone elses ideas on 'The Wall'.
1. Not just of Roger's barrier...but of ANY barrier which people erect around themselves in order to prevent unpleasant things from happening to them.

2. Yes, but not necessarily in the way that you present here. Roger has admitted that the barrier that he felt was between the band and the audience was the result of their own greed in allowing themselves to play in places where the intimacy that they once felt between themselves and the audience is impossible to achieve.

3. I wouldn't say that it's "no better than anyone else's," just because without his interpretation of it, he couldn't have written the piece in the first place.

User avatar
Idisaffect
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2039
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:20 am
Gender: Male
Location: here now

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Idisaffect » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:28 am

mosespa wrote: See the parenthetical statement in point two above. :lol:

...... The show was designed to raise money for the Memorial Fund For Disaster Relief.
Yes, I was aware of that and that is a nice thing to do.

As a MUSICAL PRODUCT I was not impressed with it, that's all. I don't need to hear Brian Adams singing Young Lust. I certainly have nothing negative to say about the event itself. As a video it's an interesting spectacle. It just has no musical value for me.

I've got the whole Waters/Wall interview here at my house. I don't really like the interview because I like the mystery of The Wall.
Like when you first hear it.

User avatar
moom
Supreme Lord!
Supreme Lord!
Posts: 15141
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:41 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Dylan Moran as Bernie, from Black Books. In whom Ray Davies meets Pete Doherty.

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by moom » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:27 am

Duckboy wrote:
moom wrote:Mother did. Also, there's nothing said about friends ;) and from the movie, we know he had some in school.
He might have overreacted a bit as well. I know that from my own experience. Sometimes you really think they're against you.
They seemed like pretty bad friends, they just ran off and left him there, didn't try to stop him or anything.
Erm they did call him off :?

Duckboy
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 am
Gender: Male

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:41 pm

mosespa wrote: Yes, but not necessarily in the way that you present here. Roger has admitted that the barrier that he felt was between the band and the audience was the result of their own greed in allowing themselves to play in places where the intimacy that they once felt between themselves and the audience is impossible to achieve.
Ok but is there a chance that by lying to you about what the wall is about he is increasing that barrier, trying to distance himself from us? :lol:

User avatar
snifferdog
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12079
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:17 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Green Hill Zone

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by snifferdog » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:19 am

Expensive karaoke

User avatar
princessDungan74D
Supreme Lord!
Supreme Lord!
Posts: 7255
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:46 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Lincoln City, Oregon

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by princessDungan74D » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:33 am

it wasn't Rogers best ideas but his heart was in the right place

User avatar
mosespa
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11186
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:54 pm
Location: In the editing bay...working on the final cut...

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:23 am

Duckboy wrote:
mosespa wrote: Yes, but not necessarily in the way that you present here. Roger has admitted that the barrier that he felt was between the band and the audience was the result of their own greed in allowing themselves to play in places where the intimacy that they once felt between themselves and the audience is impossible to achieve.
Ok but is there a chance that by lying to you about what the wall is about he is increasing that barrier, trying to distance himself from us? :lol:
What purpose would that serve?

I hope this doesn't come across as condescending, but let me first say that I GET the whole "teen-angst, rebellious, don't-believe-everything-you-read, don't-trust-the-man" sort of thing; Really, I get that.

But what you're getting at here is the suggestion that a guy would spend over five years of his life writing an album, recording that album, explaining that album in interviews multiple times, performing that album live and making a movie about it just so he could lie about what it's all really about.

Dude, I'M supposed to be the resident misanthrope here. :lol:

Duckboy
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 am
Gender: Male

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Duckboy » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:36 pm

:lol: :lol: My argument was just rather poor after I started reading more about 'The Wall' so I went for something you couldn't possibly beat. You never will know if Roger is telling the truth.

User avatar
mosespa
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11186
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:54 pm
Location: In the editing bay...working on the final cut...

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by mosespa » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:42 am

You're correct that I can never KNOW, since I will never be inside his head.

However, all of the interviews that I've read (and I've read many, many interviews with many people who have been involved with the album/film/concerts,) and all of the research that I've done when double-checked and cross referenced all adds up.

I may never KNOW whether or not Roger is lying...but I CAN be (and am,) 99.99 percent sure that he's not lying.

User avatar
Idisaffect
Judge!
Judge!
Posts: 2039
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:20 am
Gender: Male
Location: here now

Re: Roger Waters - Live In Berlin 1990

Post by Idisaffect » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:20 am

If Roger Waters is lying than Pink Floyd sucks.


I believe him.