Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate this album

5 - Best
3
9%
4
3
9%
3
10
29%
2
9
26%
1 - Worst
10
29%
 
Total votes: 35

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Idisaffect
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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Idisaffect » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:53 am

danielcaux wrote:appealing to higher culture

That's a quote from the review. Not a quote from danielcaux.
What a load of elitist snobbery. What a bunch of crap.

J Ed, I thought yours was a very perceptive post.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Hogtown » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:25 pm

The birth of democracy is a great topic. Love the French! Thank-you for the Revolution! And thank-you Roger for sending the Revolution a love letter...even, if I can't listen to much of it.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by danielcaux » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:28 pm

French Revolution the birth of democracy?? HA HA charade that was!

They just replaced the monarchy with a bourgeoisie aristocracy, and then cut the head of anyone who dared to oposse the regime. What a fucking great triumph for democracy.

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To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is cruelty.
Maximilien Robespierre, 1794

Now, that sounds currently familiar.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Hudini » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:50 pm

danielcaux wrote:They just replaced the monarchy with a bourgeoisie aristocracy
I'd say they replaced the monarchy that not knowingly tyrannized the people out of their own ignorance with the bourgeoisie aristocracy that deliberately tyrannized the people out of the awareness someone would replace them too, which did eventually happen.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Hogtown » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:18 pm

Hudini wrote:
danielcaux wrote:They just replaced the monarchy with a bourgeoisie aristocracy
I'd say they replaced the monarchy that not knowingly tyrannized the people out of their own ignorance with the bourgeoisie aristocracy that deliberately tyrannized the people out of the awareness someone would replace them too, which did eventually happen.
Right, damn bourgeoisie! It got the ball rolling...it was never finished. It is a work in progress.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by oldhippy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:40 am

I have no wish to hear this. So unable to vote or pass any comments.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Hogtown » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:10 pm

why did you post anything oldhippy?

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by oldhippy » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:44 am

Hogtown wrote:why did you post anything oldhippy?
Well it is open to disucussion. I just wanted people to know that I'm one that hasn't heard it. Besides I don't like Opera but I do like some Classical music.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by kitkat » Fri May 01, 2009 6:29 am

Very strange that old hippy feels the need to comment that he isnt commenting. :lol:

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Spinoza » Sat May 02, 2009 10:19 pm

danielcaux wrote:
J Ed wrote:What did genuine opera connosewers think of this wealthy rockstar's dabbling in the medium? I never saw any reviews from a serious opera perspective, but I am sure much of the sales his record did achieve was due to Floyd completists rather than regular opera fans - I think most opera fans dont expect to like anything "modern", anyway.
I'm 100% positive that the reason Ça Ira reached #1 in the classical charts was due Pink Floyd related fandom buying the album, there's no doubt about it.

Oh yes, most average classical music fans are not into current "avantgard" or "modern" classical music, Stravinsky is the farthest they will go, and that's really pushing it; but then again Roger Waters' work seems to be pretty conservative in musical terms. Still, as you said, most Classical-heads (AKA snobs) I know are more into present day performers than present day composers, so they would surely dismiss any attempt of a pop musician writing classical music because well, in their minds there is not a single chance of new music being up to par with Wagner, and although they may be right, when applying that mentallity to a work like Ça Ira, it is still a flawed mentallity rooted more in prejudices and sophistication than on an even handed artistic judgement. They are not even interested in new "classical" music, they just want to connect with that ancient "European well of musical perfection", and dress in black ties for the occasion.

I don't know how much of a real classical perspective this really is, but here are some fragments of the Allmusic Classical review of Ça Ira, gotta love that Andrew Lloyd Webber comparison!
Roger Waters, the man who equated "education" with "thought control" in his pseudo-opera The Wall, is now back and appealing to higher culture in his new opera Ça Ira. Moreover, this is a real opera, with singers, a chorus, and an orchestra with not a single dreamy, overlong electric guitar solo in sight. Fans of Pink Floyd will find little in Ça Ira to satisfy their jones for "the Floyd," although there are many standard musical features associated with the classic rock staple group that have been carried over into this work — crushingly slow tempi, somber and monotonous singing, and a mania for pristine recordings of sound effects. At one point, a volley of musket fire makes you jump out of your seat.

Ça Ira would be a hard opera for a singer to love, as there is no characterization through the singing whatsoever, and characters themselves are not given enough of the floor to engage us. The orchestration is handled with taste and some sophistication, but in terms of melody, Ça Ira is the sing-songiest opera since the pre-revolutionary days of Thomas and Sally. Wherever the fundamental of the harmonic movement is, the melody line follows, and vice-versa. In spots where there is no harmonic foundation, Waters resorts to scalar or bugle-call like figures that, while effectively passing as notes to hang the words onto, do not constitute melody in and of themselves. This kind of texture overall would be tremendously monochromatic and dull for the average opera listener.

However, if the name above the title were Andrew Lloyd Webber, then Ça Ira would be considered better than average. Moreover, there is potential good to be reaped if Ça Ira gains some popularity. If it proves to your standard-issue stoner that you don't have to be a dork to enjoy an opera, that's terrific.
And here are some fragments of the Allmusic Pop review of Ça Ira.
Ça Ira has been described as an opera, but, at least on record, it might better be called an oratorio. The difference between the two, of course, has to do with staging and theatrical content.

Like other pop and rock musicians who have turned to classical music, such as Paul McCartney and Billy Joel, Waters turns out to have a fairly traditional idea of the form. Perhaps in aspiring to legitimacy, he has written a work that harks back to the Romantic movement of the 18th century, music that in some ways grew out of the French Revolution.

Three different choirs also appear, one of them a children's choir that sings in lower-class British accents. This provides one of the few ties to Waters' earlier work — one can easily imagine the children suddenly breaking into a chorus of "We don't need no education" from "Another Brick in the Wall, Pt. 2." They don't, however
.
:lol:
Just to surprise you:

i'm a pink Floyd Freak: from Piper to TDB and OAI.
I love the Organ ( Bach, Buxtehude and French composers like Coupetin, Marchand, De Grigny and Du Mage ) and Clavecimble (mostly Fench )
I love Opera especialy: Rameau, Lully and Wagner.

Waters' opera is NOT written by Waters. Every Genuine Opera has the MUSIC totalitary written by the composer. Waters has been able to let the music be written by others, he just game some basics.
Thats why Ca ira lacks the depht of good classical music.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by princessDungan74D » Sat May 02, 2009 10:43 pm

I know I am suppose to like it because I have a thing with Roger. I just don't like it.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by ddebil » Sat May 02, 2009 10:48 pm

I preferred the rare bootleg version recorded in Egypt, called Ca Iro.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by snifferdog » Mon May 04, 2009 10:42 am

:lol: Very good

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Damn!t » Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

:lol:

I bought that cd when it came out.
And it still has a sole purpose of completing my Waters/Floyd collection.

Whole thing is nothing spectacular. Worst thing he ever done in his brilliant carrer.
He should stick to rock and roll.

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Re: Roger Waters - Ca Ira

Post by Hogtown » Mon May 04, 2009 5:44 pm

Damn!t wrote:Whole thing is nothing spectacular. Worst thing he ever done in his brilliant carrer.
He should stick to rock and roll.
Have you seen the footage from the first half that was performed in Poland? It actually works better live, with the visual elements at play.