David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate this Album

5 - Best
2
8%
4
6
25%
3
9
38%
2
4
17%
1 - Worst
3
13%
 
Total votes: 24

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theaussiefloydian
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by theaussiefloydian »

Annoying Twit wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:11 pm I find that, for my personal taste, OAI just washes along a bit too much. OAI (the song) is OK, but somehow the melody isn't quite distinctive enough for me. 'The Blue' is even less distinctive. I personally need more to get my teeth into. RtL provides that for me.
Fair enough. My brother has accused me of liking boring things so that probably plays into my love for On an Island. And as much as I like The Blue it does go on for about 30 seconds longer than it really needs to
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by space triangle »

Just listening to this album after quite a while. It's not as bad as I remember it to be, actually. Not a half as dull as OAI. A two or three songs I don't like that much(Faces of Sone, A Boat Lies Waiting and The Girl in the Yellow Dress). The rest is Ok. Three stars to RTL.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Annoying Twit wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:11 pm I find that, for my personal taste, OAI just washes along a bit too much. OAI (the song) is OK, but somehow the melody isn't quite distinctive enough for me. 'The Blue' is even less distinctive. I personally need more to get my teeth into. RtL provides that for me.
At some point I watched all of the easter eggs and special features on the Remember That Night DVD, and there are a few bits of Gilmour playing the piano and explaining how he went about writing some of the music. Songs like "The Blue" and "Pocketful of Stones" started out as these little piano pieces that he specifically compared to Erik Satie, and if you aren't familiar with him, go listen to Three Gymnopédies and Six Gnossiennes now - he worked with the avant garde at the time, was often labeled an impressionist, but those two collections are considered the beginning of "ambient" music; they were published about a century before A Momentary Lapse of Reason and are older than Gilmour's houseboat. "The Blue" is definitely an impressionist piece, because he was musically emulating the rocking of a boat, and Polly picked up on that without him saying so.

"A Boat Lies Waiting" is very similar, and the piano part was recorded in 1997. Yes, it's short - it intentionally ends "too soon" because it's about Rick's death, and Rick's influence on David’s music. I've always thought Brian Eno would be an excellent musical partner for Gilmour, so I was pleasantly surprised when his brother turned up on that track. But again, they certainly all share a love of Satie's work, and if you don't enjoy the Gnossiennes then no, you probably won't enjoy much of On An Island.

There's a great quote by Brian Eno that I can't find right now, but he essentially says that a lot of fans have asked him over the years why he doesn't make more albums like [insert title here], and his response to that is always "If I'd followed your advice in the first place I'd never have got anywhere." I probably listen to On An Island and Rattle That Lock more than most Pink Floyd albums, and I always find it odd that people expect a 60 or 70 year-old man to put out a "rock" album, when that's clearly not what he listens to. On the other hand, Roger did put out a "rock" album, and that's not what he listens to either - which is why it sounds derivative and predictable.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by space triangle »

^^

Ziggy, you are almost too much a theoreticaly-music educated. This is not Hector Berlioz's or Karlheinz Stockhausen's forum. This is Rock'n'roll's band Pink Floyd forum. :D
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by Annoying Twit »

Just as a clarification, my comment above is solely about the individual songs on what would be 'side 1' of OAI. I find the album inconsistent, but there are some excellent songs on it. RtL is more consistent, in my opinion. But, Pocketful of Stones and Where We Start, in particular, are very good.

I'm familiar with the work of Eric Satie.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by theaussiefloydian »

space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:30 am ^^

Ziggy, you are almost too much a theoreticaly-music educated. This is not Hector Berlioz's or Karlheinz Stockhausen's forum. This is Rock'n'roll's band Pink Floyd forum. :D
And yet I find he makes points that are pretty valid. The music we write will always be based on the music we listen to - that I can attest to from personal experience. Whilst my music is done in a digital audio workstation I am somewhat limited to more electronic sounds, the music I have listened to has always played a huge hand in how I produce it. Pink Floyd urged me to try experimental multi part pieces for example, while bands like Slowdive and Boards of Canada pushed me towards a dreamier sound. Exposure will always influence our work. Everything Ziggy said makes complete sense and I agree with him wholeheartedly.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by space triangle »

theaussiefloydian wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:37 amAnd yet I find he makes points that are pretty valid.
Oh yes I agree, really. Too much valid, indeed.

But I have to quote the Rolling Stones along the way: ''It's Only Rock 'n Roll but I like it!'' :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmgCy__eUa8
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:00 pmBut I have to quote the Rolling Stones along the way: ''It's Only Rock 'n Roll but I like it!'' :D
I have to quote Mr. Gilmour regarding The Rolling Stones, circa 2006:

Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour has told The Rolling Stones to quit touring and "get a life,” in an article published by World Entertainment News Network. Gilmour, 60, insists the veteran stadium rockers aren't interested in music; they are simply obsessed with the adulation they receive from fans.

"I think it's ridiculous, actually. Mick and Keith should get a life. It's like a strange, sexual compulsion. How much do they need? I think a lot of it is the applause. It's a powerful drug. 50,000 people appearing to adore you. I'm a big Stones fan but they haven't done anything that matches their earlier stuff in years,” Gilmour said.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by space triangle »

``
I agree with Gilmour 100% as far as the Rolling Stones goes, but that is not my point.
My point is that Pink Floyd’s music is very simple. They achieved world fame with a 'legendary' rule ‘Less is more’. The famous 4-note solo on Shine On You Crazy Diamond is a great example of that rule. Ziggy you are often mentioning different composers when you analyzing Pink Floyd music. I could understand you if we are talking about Rush, Yes or Genesis for example who had musical virtuosos in their bands like Chris Squire. Geddy Lee, Bill Bruford, Steve Howe, etc. Pink Floyd music is very simple, but incredibly effective.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

I used to be (even) more argumentative about it, but I've never really considered Pink Floyd to be a "rock'n'roll" band. Plenty of other musicians and groups started out playing the same kind of skiffle or rhythm and blues that the Floyd grew up with, and moved into other genres altogether, like jazz, jazz fusion, or strictly blues. I think Pink Floyd's mainstream popularity has kept any label other "rock and roll" from being applied to them, simply because there are no other avart garde artists that have ever had such broad appeal. The Beatles certainly experimented with different genres and production methods, but they always maintained a "rock" sound, and the Get Back sessions were a conscious move to rid themselves of those tendencies.

"These songs don't go anywhere." Case in point! The goddamn Rolling Stones aren't releasing free-form instrumentals. Pink Floyd are more of an unconventional jazz group that occasionally uses elements of "rock" music, than a "rock" band that frequently incorporates jazz into their music - of which there are many, and somehow none have been as successful. But just often, they're using folk, blues, classical, musique concrète, ambient, and electronic music. Their music is comprised of these things every bit as much as it is anything else. They're not formally trained in any genre, but they were certainly influenced and inspired by all of these composers. Most progressive rock and jazz fusion groups have taken a much narrower approach, often playing jazz in a very familiar "rock" or "pop" song structure, or vice versa.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:30 pmZiggy you are often mentioning different composers when you analyzing Pink Floyd music.
All of the composers I've mentioned were definitely influences on Pink Floyd, with the exception of Ottorino Respighi, which is my own speculation since none of them have ever mentioned him, but there are almost too many similarities to be coincidental. I mentioned Satie because Gilmour pointed to him as the influence on those songs. Even Syd Barrett was known to be a big fan of John Cage.
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:30 pmI could understand you if we are talking about Rush, Yes or Genesis for example who had musical virtuosos in their bands like Chris Squire. Geddy Lee, Bill Bruford, Steve Howe, etc. Pink Floyd music is very simple, but incredibly effective.
https://youtu.be/D30LAzub2gs

Please, listen to this and tell me what it has in common with any of those groups. Classical music of any era is not inherently complicated, and neither is jazz. Rimsky-Korsakov stated in Principles of Orchestration that each musician's part should stand on its own melodically, but be simple enough that any trained musician could play it well enough after seeing it for the first time and running through it two or three times. Whether or not a soloist would need to be a "virtuoso" depends on the piece of music, and the vast majority do not require it. The "prog" musicians you mentioned are essentially all jazz soloists, so there aren't many classical composers that would be relevant in that discussion. Erik Satie could be credited with inventing the "less is more" approach - many of his pieces don't even have bar lines, so that rather than trying to maintain a rhythm, the musician should be trying to maintain a mood (he also wrote little suggestive descriptions above certain parts, such as "like a hole").
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Gilmour playing his piano parts for "Pocketful of Stones":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvMNX0wG_gQ

Recording his many parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMk4xZ_45Po


So this is rock'n'roll?

"I keep thinking, how would Jeff Beck do it?!"
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Well, space triangle...any thoughts?
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Re: David Gilmour Rattle That Lock

Post by space triangle »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:51 pmI used to be (even) more argumentative about it, but I've never really considered Pink Floyd to be a "rock'n'roll" band. think Pink Floyd's mainstream popularity has kept any label other "rock and roll" from being applied to them, simply because there are no other avart garde artists that have ever had such broad appeal.
Nick Mason 1974: 'A lot of people are always looking for a new music direction for us and saying **Oh this is your new direction lads'' - there has always been a tendency to fix labels. But, our music direction was always been erratic, amd I think we've managed to fool most of the people most of the time. But, it's odd people still want too descrine our music, and put a label on it. I wonder if it's necessary to do that at all?'