do you believe in God

[DoctorFloyd]

Depends what you mean by athiest. Sometimes it means you believe in nothing, but then other people use it to signify that they don't believe in any proscribed religion

[Tenniru]

I believe only in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the might of His Noodly Appendage.

Um.

Yeah, I'm an atheist. If there was a God, I'd hate him.

[Stween]

Depends what you mean by athiest. Sometimes it means you believe in nothing, but then other people use it to signify that they don't believe in any proscribed religion

Other people need to learn the word "agnostic"

[Savanah]

Only if one interprets it correctly. If interpreted wrongly, the bible leads to a blinkered mindset, and a lack of open mindedness. I should know, my ex gf was like it. If read literally, the bible can be dangerous.

With all due respect to you DoctorFloyd, I don't think the Bible is dangerous at all.

The central theme is God's love for the human race and how He provided a way for us all to escape an eternity in hell. How can that be dangerous?

[henno]

With all due respect to you DoctorFloyd, I don't think the Bible is dangerous at all.

The central theme is God's love for the human race and how He provided a way for us all to escape an eternity in hell. How can that be dangerous?

the theme of the bible is not in question, however theres a big difference between th eold and new testament ie old = fire and brimestone, new = love of god.....

i think the point is, if the bible is to be take literally it is VERY dangerous, and unfortunately it is taken literally by sections of society...

some sections of christaninty believe in 'sola scriptura': which is 'Faith is to be based on the Bible alone'

according to the bible you are going to hell if you have sex before marriage, use condems, eat pork, drink alcohol, make a profit in business, are homosexual, get a tattoo or piercing, ..... etc etc...

the bible is inherently inaccurate and falliable, as it was written by people.... although again some religious groups believe in biblical inerrancy.... but this is easily dismissed.....

the bible itself is not dangerous, but peoples interpretations of it are extremly so (funnily enough this is the same situation for the Quor'an)
The emergence of 'creationism' in America is extremly dangerous.
especially the political push to have this drivel thought in schools as fact....

[Sonic Destruction]

Henno, it appears that you have actually read the Bible (or at least parts of it), and that is good. I respect that far more than someone who dismisses a whole concept without having looked into it at all (I even read the Holy Koran cover to cover in an effort to understand it; unfortunately, I don't think I am any better off, as far as understanding goes).

The problem of interpretation of the Bible is a tricky one, and, to the great shame of Christianity, people have been killing each other about it for 1000's of years.

I think, if anyone demands that every word of the Bible must be taken as literal truth, they should be asked why they haven't cut out their eye or chopped of their hand which has caused them to "sin".

When Jesus talked, he used parables to illustrate his points, and of course they can't be taken as literal truth either (is the Kingdom Of God really exactly "like a mustard seed", ie small, hard and round?? Of course not!).

I am no expert Biblical scholar and, even if I was, this is not the place to try and give a comprehensive study on what "difficult" books like Genesis and Revelation actually mean, or why God seems so harsh in the Old Testament and loving in the New one. I guess, I just want to say that I agree with you that incorrect interpretation of the Bible can be very dangerous, and used to justify any number of atrocities. However, I think it is still possible to hold to the "actual" truth (as opposed to the"literal" truth) in the Bible, even here in the 21st century. Therefore, I am okay with calling myself a Christian while having had piercings, used birth control, had gay people as good friends, drunk alcohol, had non-Christian friends, and (worst of all) listen to ROCK MUSIC!

[PublicImage]

Do I believe in God? This is what I think.

[moreblues]

i'm agnostic, i strongly believe there's no way we can be sure whether god exists or not, but my inner voice tells me there's a sort of supreme being who is responsible for the existance of the universe, yet it's definitely not the traditionally known god who we all grew up to know!

[jambo]

Do I believe in God? This is what I think.

I second that motion.

[henno]

still at 50 - 50... cool!!

[rememberaday]

I'm an atheist (weak atheism, though). I don't believe in God, mostly due to the lack of evidence. Even if God exists, I see no reason to worship him.

Just to start things off (again), as a sort of warm up, I've a question to all believers:

How can you call God a Supreme Being? And if he's not a Supreme Being, what is he, besides being God?

[my breakfast.]

Yes I'm a believer. No discussion at the moment ok? I just believe there is a god ok!

Well I was a little naive seven years ago.

[snifferdog]

No but I respect the rights of other people to believe in him. I just don't want them shoving their beliefs down my neck or using it as a means to hurt others. </crusty>

[rememberaday]

The thread title is hilarious:

do you believe in God

So much for señor creator.

[rememberaday]

Well, I haven't got answers to my questions yet, but I'll just proceed onto my main doubts regarding God and his existence.

If God actually exists, then I'd like to know why exactly he created this world. This world is full of sadness, despair and misery. Now why would God ever create a world like. Obviously he isn't bound by any law, or else he wouldn't be Omnipotent.

Now if one says that God created this world out of pleasure, then it would be even more sickening. You hear news of pedophiles and rapists who destroy others' lives and subjugate them to the utmost misery for their own crazed pleasure - do they ever get worshipped. If God did indeed create this world, not bound by any law, but out of pleasure, then this must be a very diseased pleasure. There's nothing so godly inspiring or worshippable about it.

i. I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally believe in a God who Created all of this...and then set it in motion, leaving us at the mercy of the repercussions of our actions. I do not consider this "cruel" of Him

ii. I also understand that if all we had to do was call upon Him to get ourselves out of a jam, well...we'd never be out of jams because all we'd have to do is pray and we'd be in the clear.

i. That is equally horrible. By leaving us at the mercy of the repurcussions of our actions, he is shedding off the responsibility that comes with creating us. If a parent abandons a child, one curses the parent; should that not apply for this dear figure of yours who has fled away from his responsibilities?

ii. What you say is agreeable...but then again, God created this world, with a purpose I presume, thus unless he is an abandoner or a somewhat perverted person. If he had the power to create it, isn't is equally expected that he must have the power to prevent his creations from significantly harming each other/the world?

Be a bit more observative and you'll see thousands of people dying of poverty and illness. Think about all those girls who are raped every day, and those children who have to spend traumatic lives because of child or sexual abuse. Think of greedy persons and nations even who pursue their own greed and are apathetic to the needs of others - and then think of your God who so dutifully created a world only to abandon it and let it suffer. Can you still say that all is well in God's kingdom?

If you still maintain that God merely created the world and cannot stop us from destructive actions, then it somehow contradicts with your notion that God is omnipotent.

2. People pray before God, thanking him for giving them "wealth, health and prosperity". This strikes me as a very arrogant opinion. Who are YOU to be more deserving of this prosperity than the victims I mentioned above? What have YOU done that is so more higher than those victims have done? Being raised up among Hindus, I was taught about karma, which goes something like "God does not make one suffer for no reason nor does He make one happy for no reason. God is very fair and gives you exactly what you deserve." Now my question is why did the first victim of murder die? You can't argue he did something wrong in his previous life - it makes absolutely no sense.

3. To me, God is merely a concept - since there is no proof for either his existence or non-existence. Thus, just as I have no empirical evidence against the existence of God, there is no empirical evidence for the existence of a God as well. Thus I feel agnosticism is the best possible stance towards the existence of God. However, even if one was to accept the presence of a higher being, wouldn't it be right to believe that this higher being is highly immoral?

Eclipse, earlier on, summed up nicely why I chose not to go down the whole "OMG SCIENCE IS AMAZING LOLOL" route, which is that science is just another faith based system. A lot of people swear by the scientific experiments that prove the world is many millions of years old, yet I doubt they ever go and find the peer-reviewed journals that back up their beliefs.

I agree, but to me the basic essence of science is to reason and derive from this reasoning concepts regarding any subject which nearly true in all cases. The experiments are held to confirm the validity of the derived concept. Thus all the people who merely swear by the proven scientific experiments without actually understanding the proof or analyzing them and not actually being scientific. You see, I'm not of the opinion that science is always right, more the contrary. However, I prefer it to religion because it goes by reason and not be blind faith - thus, there is more chance of science progressing than religion although it may still be subject to inaccuracy. That is why reasoning is more important that just making statements.

4. God to me was a concept created by a man who was ridden with fears and insecurities, probably with no shelter or support...in circumstances like those, the apparent presence of a "higher" being "endowed with the power to deliver justice and protect its true followers from harm" seems comforting. God to me is a concept that rides on fear of the unknown, much like horror movies which serve to frighten us because we do not know whether the undead actually exist. I do not accept this because it strikes me a very human concept, based on human weaknesses and cowardice, to explain a being which is said to be above humans.

If I found out there was no God and that there was no purpose to why I am here, but that I am here merely by chance, I would do things alot differently. I love sex way too much and that's probably all I would do if there were no inhibitions and such. All sense of what's good and bad would be man made and, thus, have no bearing on the way I live.

I disagree with you. It seems you already assume that God made you for a purpose, but you do not actually know what this purpose is. So you are saying you repress your desires for more sex due to the presence of a God, of whom you are scared of because doing anything wrong will go against your predefined purpose? But why are you actually drawn to religion in the first place - if it is not your fear of God, could it be that you feel that by serving God, you are doing some good? If the latter is right, then it proves that you actually had a sense of good and a inborn characteristic to do something good even in your atheistic state.

You say that without religion, all good and bad would be man made, without taking into account that religion and God is man made itself .

You still have a purpose even if God never exists - only that it serves you and indirectly a few other specific people. You may say that your purpose in life would then be to have sex forever, but then that may not be the purpose of people who do not wish to have sex with you, and then their purpose would be to oppose your will.

Another last point to cwta eugene's post - animals also exhibit altruism and moral features without resorting to God or religion - a good example being the bird warning antelopes of the presence of a tiger.


Well, those are my points. I'm not here so much for arguing as to understanding. Though I do not believe in a God, I'm pretty open to the existence of the God - just prove it to me. Also, convince me as to why God must be worshipped.

Oh by the way, hats off to those who read the whole thing.