Margaret Thatcher RIP

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my breakfast.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by my breakfast. »

I am amused that half my Facebook feed was trying to out-do itself at posting the most reactionary and offensive humour regarding the passing of Thatcher. As far as I'm concerned, an elderly and frail woman died. Her politics were pretty much over by the time I was born. The same can be said for half my Facebook feed, who I would wager were born in 1989 or later.

At the end of the day a bit of pragmatism would not go a miss. The trade unions of the '80s wanted an unreasonable level of market control to be employed to try and artificially inflate the value of UK-made goods. They wanted it to be the '70s for ever, whereby they could strike for any unreasonable demands and get it sorted for them lest the country grind to its knees. Now Thatcher was not interested in what happened in these heavy-industry communities once the industries shut down; she was interested in her London boys (and cheeky-chappy barrow-boys turned good, such as Alan Sugar) getting a big old slice of pie as the UK was strong-armed into becoming a services sector. As a manufacturing giant we lost out totally to China and other overseas production (and I doubt Amstrad computers were made in the UK somehow), but if they had tried to sustain industry in the UK any longer the fall would have been worse. She should have been more interested in what happened to mining communities (and all others associated with heavy industry), but what she did was purely conservative economic values in practice.

I don't know. I wasn't there.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by moom »

Thank you very much, Daniel, however I'm not entitled to join this debate over her legacy.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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moom wrote:
Morrissey finally got his wish. So did Roger Waters (...)

:D
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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So did The Final Cut, I guess :D

It's just light fun, nothing serious on my part, okay ?
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by snifferdog »

I'm not English and I don't remember the Thatcher years too well. So it has been fascinating to see the outpouring of sheer vitriol for a woman who, let it not be forgotten, was democratically elected 3 times by the British public. I've read some analysis of her and her policies since she died. I'd not be a fan and certainly left her mark. But when it comes down to it, the British could've ticked the box marked Labour in the next two elections and they didn't. Is that a simplistic argument? Yes of course it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_WuFTX-5E
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by rememberaday »

Indeed it is a simplistic argument. Democracy actually doesn't work that way, India being a great example. We only voted for the Congress (the party in power) because the other parties and opposition prove to be equally pathetic, corrupt and greedy.

At the end of the day, I agree with the 1st part of Alan's post. Maggie was just an old lady by the time of her death, and the amount of joy upon her death is unjustified.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by danielcaux »

Yeah, it's kinda stupid to celebrate the old woman's death while the economic policies that she implemented are still standing on firm feet. Margaret Tatcher, a 87 year old woman that suffered from alzheimer's has died, Tatcherism however is very much alive.

It would be kind of like celebrating the death of Kim Jong-il while the Workers' Party of Korea is still in power and they are still eating shit :roll:
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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I understand your point of view.

Even so, I wouldn´t mind if tomorrow they announced the death of G.W. Bush, Obama and Netanyahu.

We don´t need this kind of people. Just evil.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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I hope nobody is offended, but used to love Spitting Image:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aAW5822Otg
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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thefinalcut wrote:I understand your point of view.

Even so, I wouldn´t mind if tomorrow they announced the death of G.W. Bush, Obama and Netanyahu.

We don´t need this kind of people. Just evil.
Yeah but would you be be overjoyed if they died when their policies are still very much alive and going strong, and they themselves, whether they deserve it or not, get championed as heroes? The CIA tried that with you 46 years ago, Che, and it didn't work. ](*,)
oldhippy wrote:The X terrorist Mandela is going to snuff it next.
I know you're all passionate about your opinion, but I'd like to think Robert Mugabe is the one who needs to go first.

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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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thefinalcut wrote:I understand your point of view.

Even so, I wouldn´t mind if tomorrow they announced the death of G.W. Bush, Obama and Netanyahu.

We don´t need this kind of people. Just evil.
You sound like someone who has been brainwashed to death. "Just evil" is the kind of retarded rethoric Bush Jr. used to promote during his years as president, in order to justify all his "preemptive" wars against all the "evil doers", all those terrible subhuman beings living in nations that were part of this magical "axis of evil". It's the kind of mentality that fanatics tend to use IMO. I can perfectly see both Netanyahu and Ahmadinejad using a phrase like "we don't need this kind of people" when talking about each other. They don't seem to realize that they had become just like their enemy when they fall into that kind of mental trap.

People is just people, their death isn't going to change a twig about current world affaris, and that's even more true in the case of eldery and retired politicians. It's the politics and the unpersonal social and economical forces the ones that must change, the ones that must die, not the mere flesh. How many prime ministers has Israel had since 1948? How many have died? How much things have changed with their deaths?

Right now there's a conservative at 10 Downing Street, is Tatcher death going to change that? In what ways are the miners going to benefit from her death? Their celebration is nothing more than a poor display of irrational lust for vengeance. I found it kinda funny too: how in hell can they believe that the death of a 87 year old woman is somehow a triumph for them? I mean, IMO being able to live to that advanced age seems like a triumph for her!
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by mosespa »

rememberaday wrote:BTW, I've researched a bit more on Thatcher, and I think she's a bitch. Not as much of a bitch as Ayn Rand though.
Just curious as to what made Ayn Rand "a bitch?"

Was it her belief that no human being has the right to demand anything of another that the other isn't willing to give?

Is it because of her belief that anyone who attempts to consume more than they produce is a parasite?

Is it her belief that a man has the right to exist for himself without requiring the sanction of others as his reason for being?

Maybe it's her belief that no one has the right to initiate the use of force against others?

I'm just curious...because I don't think she was a bitch. I think she was a wonderful thinker who could have changed the world for the better if only knee-jerk parasite supporters didn't spend all their time bitching about what other people were saying that she said instead of reading it for themselves.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Post by my breakfast. »

I like the bit where guys defend Ayn Rand even though they would be of no use in the sort of fantasy world Rand wrote about. 8/10 would read again.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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Ayn Rand Devotee wrote:Just curious as to what made her "a bitch?"
I don't think bitch was really the right word. I mainly dislike her because she put forth a pseudo-philosophy, glorified losers in the society, and teemed with egotism.

I know I'll be mossified. Martyrdom, at last.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

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danielcaux wrote:You sound like someone who has been brainwashed to death. "Just evil" is the kind of retarded rethoric Bush Jr. used to promote during his years as president, in order to justify all his "preemptive" wars against all the "evil doers", all those terrible subhuman beings living in nations that were part of this magical "axis of evil". It's the kind of mentality that fanatics tend to use IMO. I can perfectly see both Netanyahu and Ahmadinejad using a phrase like "we don't need this kind of people" when talking about each other. They don't seem to realize that they had become just like their enemy when they fall into that kind of mental trap.
Haha fanatic? All I can see is that, luckily, you don´t know a shit about me and you make personal judgements like "You sound like someone who has been brainwashed to death" and stuff. Please refrain from giving personal opinions, or is it what you need, in order to impose your point of view, disqualifying other people? Just exactly like Bush jr. did.
Do not lecture me with your rubbish.
Don´t you put me in the same line with the Bush and Netanyahu muck. Thanks.
You´re making me be off topic this time, which upsets me very much.
danielcaux wrote:Ahmadinejad using a phrase like "we don't need this kind of people"
At least he has the balls to defend his own country and the interests of his people.
danielcaux wrote: People is just people, their death isn't going to change a twig about current world affaris, and that's even more true in the case of eldery and retired politicians. It's the politics and the unpersonal social and economical forces the ones that must change, the ones that must die, not the mere flesh. How many prime ministers has Israel had since 1948? How many have died? How much things have changed with their deaths?
I agree. But now that you feel at easy judging people that you´ll never meet, I´m able to make a comment about you, in return. You sound like a pedantic one who is comfortable with the way the world is being ruled, with no interest in a real change, a very conservative mind...Your motto would be "leave the scenario just as it is, nobody can change anything"

Cheers
Last edited by thefinalcut on Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.