Roger Waters Visit to West Bank 2009 - Story and Photos

[kitkat]

Bumr, you are correct.

Idsaffect, no offense but that was a bizarre post you made. Maybe you are high.

You said that creativity creates governments not the other way around? What the hell dude?? Its the type of government that allows freedom of expression allows artists to be creative. That was the obvious point that he as making.

Do you think Roger Waters would be allowed to be creative and put out anti-government sentiment or any musical views that are anti-religion or anything the government deems dangerous. Could Roger Waters put out Amused to Death in Bejing? How about Moscow 20 years ago. How about his favorite place, Beruit. Hell no! Thats why his criticizing of governments that are superior to the governments that he doesnt criticize is hypocrital.

If he wants to criticize Israel and get all visibly pissed at Netanahu, why doesnt he go live in one of the countries that daily tries to kill Jews? Lets see how free he is there.

If religion is just a smokescreen, why doesnt he express that view in Saudia Arabia and make sure that he means ALL religion...not just jews and christians who he knows wont come at with a gun like the Islamists will. Its pussy of him to select his criticism against those he knows he is safe to criticize.

His wierd hatred of GW Bush and Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thatcher and now Israel and all that have been successful in bringing freedom to the world is geeked. He couldnt even be too excited about the Berlin coming down as freedom societies beat out societies (like communism) that dont even let you leave the country if you are a citizen.

Its really pathetic.

He needs to STFU and work on a non-political album.

[Bumr50]

I'm not KitKat. He's on here now, too.

I don't want to understand everybody, I don't presume to be so arrogant.

And it is very cool that we are using our free speech while we still have it. Ask Geert Wilders and Mark Steyn what happens when you criticize Islam in Holland, the UK, or Canada. It's why I can't stand the concept of "hate crime", and do everything I can to block passage.

Just because someone's speech is disagreeable doesn't make it illegal, no matter how offended people get. And if we'd effectively enforce our laws here in the U.S., there would be no need to assign an extra "degree" of motivation when sentencing.

[kitkat]

wow, another bizarre post from Idsaffect.

We will never know if RW could have creativity in St. Petersburg??? HA HA HA!!!

You ARE aware that he is referring to communist Soviet Union when it was the Soviet Union right? Maybe you dont read newspapers or something but the Soviet Union wasnt known for freedom of expression. Duh.

You have written me off forever? No loss to me dude.

Trust me on that one.

[kitkat]

I'm not KitKat. He's on here now, too.

I don't want to understand everybody, I don't presume to be so arrogant.

And it is very cool that we are using our free speech while we still have it. Ask Geert Wilders and Mark Steyn what happens when you criticize Islam in Holland, the UK, or Canada. It's why I can't stand the concept of "hate crime", and do everything I can to block passage.

Just because someone's speech is disagreeable doesn't make it illegal, no matter how offended people get. And if we'd effectively enforce our laws here in the U.S., there would be no need to assign an extra "degree" of motivation when sentencing.

Exactly, Wilders and Steyn have both been persecuted and have had death threats for saying only a small portion against Islam as Roger Waters says about Judaism and Christianity. Unlike Roger Waters, they have been willing to discuss a topic that puts them in danger instead of going the chicken route and only criticizing those you know wont come at you with a bomb or something.

[Idisaffect]

wow, another bizarre post from Idsaffect.

It's just that I am highly evolved compared to you. You apparently don't understand concepts that go beyond the established norms. It's nice of you to try to help your buddy Bumr50..... But you're making him look bad.

As far as Waters in St. Petersburg....Bumr asked a hypothetical question and it was a stupid one. It's like saying..what if KitKat was born in Ethiopia? Would he be less of a tool? It's all hypothetical and meaningless. Like your political views.

Waters statements are his own personal view. I really don't give a shit what he has to say about the state of the world. You seem to think it's important. I really just wanted to show how creativity existed in the universe before political systems. And I did.

Trust me on that one.

Trust you? No thanks.

Sarah Palin 2012!

[Damn!t]

I think this thread gives the answer to the question why Rog isnt putting any new material out...

[Keith Jordan]

Do we think perhaps Roger's material is too political in the current climate and that is perhapas why there has been no "rock album" that he said he is working on? Perhaps he said something bad about Mohammed and the record company blocked it?

In regards to Roger's visit to the West Bank and the general area, I don't think his support for the cinema in Jenin is a bad thing. Its purpose peace and understanding apparently. That is not such a bad thing.


Note: Perhaps focus the thread more on the topic of the thread and dont argue and go off topic.

[kitkat]

Yes, his support of the cinema is a good thing.

But Keith, we are on topic I think. Your original post includes Waters comments about the wall which protects Israel from suicide bombers blowing up pizza joints with kids and teenagers in them. Isnt that on-topic when we discuss Waters comments .....serious question dude?

[Hogtown]

The big stumbling block for Isreal right now is that they still have over 100 approved settlements, which most of the world does not recognize as legal. They have removed some in recent years. In fact Israel did try to evacuate some "un-recognized" settlements in recent days - the settlers actually attacked Israeli soldiers AND Palestinians...actually the settlements are part of the peace process talks...Isreal promotes "natural expansion" of those that already exist legally in their mind. Palistine will not go ahead we peace talks, if Isreal will not get rid of the settlements (again, most of the world does not recognize the settlements, even Jews in and outside Isreal are divided on the settlements)...

My view is that it should be one state where everybody votes, rather than two divided by ethnic and religious lines. If there are two states, they wouldn't really be all that democratic, but simply homogonous ethno-relgious states...

Tear down the wall!!!

...oh, and creativity comes before politics. In fact, some of the best art is created under oppressive regimes...more pressing subject matter...do I have to elaborate?

[Bumr50]

But I never said politics came before creativity Politics did, however, come before Roger Waters. I think it's interesting that people have taken that out of the context in which I wrote it.
I was attempting to express that Roger doesn't create his art in a vacuum, and that different political circumstances would have , I feel, significantly changed his contributions to the planet.
I feel that this is relevant because Roger inserts himself into the discussion.
I think that he comes off as very one-sided in the piece, as he does in Leaving Beirut.
While I applaud his efforts to promote free expression, I'm fearful he's choosing an ally that would simply turn around and take that freedom away once given what they want.

[Hogtown]

appologies Bumr50, but I totally lost what was going on their with the creativity thing...

Anyway, I do like Leaving Beirut, but I cringe everytime I hear the line about Georgie's "Texas education"...wrong Roger. Actually, I have some much older friends who travelled through-out the middle east in the early sixties, and it just did not have the problems that have grown since the late sixties and into the 70s and 80s...

[Bumr50]

No offense taken Hogtown!

I'm not sure how that happened either.

[r2d2]

There ya have another Crazy Diamond.

Lets see Roger break the wall between him and Dave Gilmour. Simple ha?

Roger, please don't blow it. You were great. Stay that way. Don't become a worm.

[Flambeau]

I am really pleased to see his lively and intelligent discussion. I think Bumr50 has really captured the feelings I have on this issue. As far as Mr. Waters goes, he seems to be suffering from arrested development. Spend a couple hours in the classrooms of US schools see that 'thought control' has become the strategy for education n the US.

[Idisaffect]

But I never said politics came before creativity Politics did, however, come before Roger Waters. I think it's interesting that people have taken that out of the context in which I wrote it.

I think it's dishonest to take someone out of context and misrepresent what they have said. That was not my intention.
______________________________________________________
All we know is what we read or see on the news. It's not reality. I have no opinion on the middle east that is based on first hand experience. We all think we know what's up but we don't really know what the hell is going on. Our opinions are based on news stories that were written by people with ulterior motives. Truth is not necessarily their main motivation.

Complaining about Roger Waters expressing his opinion is more childish than him expressing that opinion. You want him to be a martyr?

Maybe you are high.

I am now. Maybe you are low. Perhaps you will elevate to my vantage point someday. Maybe start talking about things you've experienced first hand instead of things you've heard through news media outlets.

Or better yet...learn how to paint pretty pictures and leave something behind that is nice.