Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

Post by space triangle »

Btw, that's interesting as yet there is no 'Money' on the lists.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

Post by MinutesToMidnight »

Master_Chief wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:24 am Easy for me, as The Final Cut is one of my favourite Pink Floyd albums.

Can't honestly think of rating an entire 20 songs in order, as they fluctuate quite a lot. But can definitely say The Final Cut, The Gunners Dream and Two Suns in the Sunset would be in there for sure!
I'm on the same boat: I think I've never listed a PF top-something and I'm sure I'd struggle to compile one that would remain stable for more than a month. Nevertheless, to stay on topic, I'm sure I would include something from The Final Cut, as I agree with Master_Chief: it's one of my favourite ever. On the other hand, I never throughly enjoyed the post-Waters era productions, though I liked High Hopes. I was 17 when I saw them live in the AMLOR tour, and was amazed by the show. Later, in 1994, I went again and came home feeling miserable and completely detached. I didn't like the show at all and felt like Pink Floyd were actually dead -- which coincidentally turned out mostly true in real life. On the other hand, I've attended several Waters gigs and thoroughly enjoyed them from start to finish.

There was something in the Gilmour-led era which never convinced me. I disagree with the argument about Pink Floyd being recognised and celebrated because of the musicality first and foremost, with the lyrics and the spectacle only a distant second, a 'nice-to-have'. I believe it's the other way round, or at least, to avoid going too much anecdotal, they can be seen as a unity that can't be divided easily. I do understand why the 1973-1979 period is the most celebrated and the most revered by fans, and I think it proves the point: you can't take the lyrics and the concepts away and consider AMLOR and TDB on par. They're a bunch of songs put together, which is perfectly OK, but that's not why PF became what they became.

So, even if it's hard to pick and choose, I'm sure Two Suns and The Final Cut would make my top 20 and stay there.

Cheers (this might be my first public post, if memory serves me right)!
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

Post by space triangle »

Hello MinutesToMidnight and welcome to PF forum.
MinutesToMidnight wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:30 pm I was 17 when I saw them live in the AMLOR tour, and was amazed by the show. Later, in 1994, I went again and came home feeling miserable and completely detached. I didn't like the show at all and felt like Pink Floyd were actually dead
What was a difference between the AMLOR and TDB tours in your opinion that made you feel so different?
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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space triangle wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:28 pm Hello MinutesToMidnight and welcome to PF forum.
What was a difference between the AMLOR and TDB tours in your opinion that made you feel so different?
Thanks!

I think two main differences: first my age and experience. I was in my late teens in 1988, and that was my first big live concert; therefore, it was like being struck by a lightning. The latter tour happened 6 years later. Besides, and despite the historical fact that the TDB concert I attended was officially the first one where they had the whole Dark Side of the Moon sequence in the second part, it was a personal feeling of detachment from Gilmour's style. By style I mean a broad concept: unexciting and slightly boring songwriting, the lyrics by Polly Samson that I could never relate to, the fact it didn't feel like Pink Floyd, the super irritating Volkswagen sponsorship everywhere (I know Gilmour and Mason later expressed regret about that).

I simply experienced a huge live concert by someone who, in my opinion, didn't really have anything to say, and that was it. No excitement, no surprises (except for the Dark Side suite). It might also be the fact that I'm drawn to concepts, ideas, storytelling. There was absolutely none of that in the whole first set. The second set was entirely occupied by Dark Side, so that was cool. Also, as much as I love Guy Pratt, I could never stand his vocal rendition of Run Like Hell, and I still think their re-arrangement of Comfortably Numb was abysmal.

Everybody have their ideas and feelings about the PF split, but I guess it's an undeniable fact that Gilmour is not an ideas man. Not a critique to the man, of course. His songwriting can be pleasant to many, it feels boring to me. Listening to a Waters album is like being absorbed in a book, as opposed to AMLOR which to me always felt like listening to a B-side summer compilation. To make things straight: I think neither Gilmour nor Waters reached any peak after they split up, I'm convinced their mutual differences and frictions were a quintessential part of their most successful work.

I went to see Gilmour live at the Royal Albert Hall, in 2017 I think. I had to resist to the impulse of leaving early. I know it might be personal, but I really can't stand listening to 2-hours of protracted and too loud guitar solos. When we left, my ears were awfully ringing, which is something that never happened to me before with someone at that level.

Hope it's clear :)
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

Post by KingQueenKnave »

Nothing really from the Gilmour era. TFC has one or two gems, specifically The Gunner's Dream, but even that is not in my top 20.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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MinutesToMidnight wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:30 pmI was 17 when I saw them live in the AMLOR tour, and was amazed by the show. Later, in 1994, I went again and came home feeling miserable and completely detached.
I had a similar experience at Roger's In the Flesh tour in 1999. I was 16 and it was my first big concert, but it just sounded like a cover band, and to make things even weirder, a lot of the people there kept referring to the show as "Pink Floyd". After "Every Stranger's Eyes", which he clearly was lip-syncing, I was looking forward to it being over.

I saw The Wall live 11 years later, and it was great - he definitely had to mime some parts, but that was to be expected, and it was an amazing production. Roger seemed like a somewhat clownish M.C., running all over the stage, and it made an otherwise dark storyline seem silly - but it's his story, he can do what he wants with it.

Gilmour's 2016 shows in Toronto were phenomenal. He is an ideas man, but they are musical ideas; for someone like me that studied music theory, and even long before that had a strong appreciation for tonal ambiguity, that is what I go to be absorbed by. The four note refrain of "Shine On" would form a fairly dissonant chord, but he took that and thoroughly explored its potential. Roger just added words that he had a very hard time singing.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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MinutesToMidnight wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:30 pmThere was something in the Gilmour-led era which never convinced me. I disagree with the argument about Pink Floyd being recognised and celebrated because of the musicality first and foremost, with the lyrics and the spectacle only a distant second, a 'nice-to-have'. I believe it's the other way round, or at least, to avoid going too much anecdotal, they can be seen as a unity that can't be divided easily. I do understand why the 1973-1979 period is the most celebrated and the most revered by fans, and I think it proves the point: you can't take the lyrics and the concepts away and consider AMLOR and TDB on par. They're a bunch of songs put together, which is perfectly OK, but that's not why PF became what they became.
As Gilmour said in 2011,

"You can't actually pin down what is or what isn't Pink Floyd by the people who are in it - it's every one of us, every one of the four of us is kind of a vital part of the mix, and you're deluding yourself if you think anything other than that. Of course, you can take that all into the moment when Roger had gone and we had to persevere without him - and you can say something was lost, but I think something was gained as well."
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:26 pm Gilmour's 2016 shows in Toronto were phenomenal. He is an ideas man, but they are musical ideas; for someone like me that studied music theory, and even long before that had a strong appreciation for tonal ambiguity, that is what I go to be absorbed by. The four note refrain of "Shine On" would form a fairly dissonant chord, but he took that and thoroughly explored its potential. Roger just added words that he had a very hard time singing.
I studied music theory as well and graduated in 1995, so I totally get what you mean. Yet, I disagree with the last part of your sentence: I think it's extremely reductive to say 'Roger just added words'. I suppose it's all due to how we perceive things and how we connect with stories and art in general. I believe both our feelings are totally legitimate, and since I've just left social media, it's so refreshing to have a disagreement and end up understanding each other regardless.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:41 pm "You can't actually pin down what is or what isn't Pink Floyd by the people who are in it - it's every one of us, every one of the four of us is kind of a vital part of the mix, and you're deluding yourself if you think anything other than that. Of course, you can take that all into the moment when Roger had gone and we had to persevere without him - and you can say something was lost, but I think something was gained as well."
I agree with Dave, 100%, until the final bit 'something was gained'. To me that's just his point of view he needs to reiterate in order to convince himself that his 'version' of Pink Floyd was on par with what happened before. But I'll take what he said before and get away with it :)
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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MinutesToMidnight wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:12 pm I agree with Dave, 100%, until the final bit 'something was gained'. To me that's just his point of view he needs to reiterate in order to convince himself that his 'version' of Pink Floyd was on par with what happened before. But I'll take what he said before and get away with it :)
I don't know that I've ever heard him say that the latter-day Floyd albums were on par with their work with Roger, only that The Division Bell was more of a Pink Floyd record than Momentary Lapse of Reason, and I agree.

He has said that On An Island is as good as anything he's ever done, and I agree.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm I don't know that I've ever heard him say that the latter-day Floyd albums were on par with their work with Roger, only that The Division Bell was more of a Pink Floyd record than Momentary Lapse of Reason, and I agree.
I heard an interview on the telly, I think it was an Andrew Marr thing, where he said that Polly Samson is a better lyricist than Roger ever was. Which tells me everything I need to know. But again, I'm not up to a fight, I think we settled things already. I do understand your reasons.
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm He has said that On An Island is as good as anything he's ever done, and I agree.
It might well be, it's just not my cup of tea.
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Re: Both Final Cut and Gilmour era songs in your top 20?

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MinutesToMidnight wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:28 pmIt might well be, it's just not my cup of tea.
I can certainly appreciate that, since Roger's solo albums have never really done anything for me (though I really like some of the songs on Amused to Death).

The people I don't understand are the ones that, well into the '90s and beyond, continued to say that Pink Floyd should work with Roger Waters again. I don't think anyone really wants to hear a Pink Floyd album about Beirut, or Palestine, or Israel, or George W. Bush, or Donald Trump. Roger's songwriting developed around the use of very subtle metaphors, and with each album made them less and less subtle, until he was basically bludgeoning the listener with a literal brick. Even his use of sound collages went from very quiet, unexpected noises that added a layer of surrealism, to an actual radio announcer providing a play-by-play description of the storyline. If Roger put out a song tomorrow, it would be about something that happened today, and probably feature realtime news commentary and the obligatory cars hissing past his window. I think my opinion of Is This the Life We Really Want? has gone down with each listen because it's so predictable. I know he accused Gilmour of hanging onto the brand name as a "cash-grab", but I really am curious how much of Waters' output (and lack thereof) has been financially motivated, since he tends to get divorced right before each new album or tour.