Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

General discussion about Pink Floyd.
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Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by space triangle »

Hypothetical question: If you were faced with a choice of never more hearing none of Pink Floyd songs from a time when Syd was a leader of a band (PATGOD, Arnold Layne, See Emily Play ...) And also, if you were faced with a choice of never more hearing any of Pink Floyd songs created under Gilmour's leadership (AMLOR, DB and TER) ...... what would you choose? Whose Pink Flyd 'opus' would you give up forever? Syd Barrett's or David Gilmour's?
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Sadly, Barrett's (you didn't say we couldn't listen to his solo albums).

Follow-up question: If some of Syd's solo work had appeared on Ummagumma, which would it be?

Follow-up to my follow-up question:

Golden Hair
Terrapin
Long Gone
Golden Hair (instrumental guitar and vibraphone version from Opel)

Placed between The Narrow Way and The Grand Vizier's Garden Party.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by space triangle »

My choice would be:

Late Night(Instrumental)
Dominoes
Long Gone
Effervescing Elephant
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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space triangle wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:41 am My choice would be:

Late Night(Instrumental)
Dominoes
Long Gone
Effervescing Elephant
Also excellent choices - "Effervescing Elephant" definitely fits Ummagumma, but I only shied away from "Late Night" and "Dominoes" to keep the solo aspect to his chunk of songs (he could probably have played the organ on "Long Gone" himself, right? If he had to?).
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by KingQueenKnave »

Barrett led Floyd was a short lived yet fruitful lineup. Gilmour led Floyd did not make music that appeals to me.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

KingQueenKnave wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:55 amGilmour led Floyd did not make music that appeals to me.
Not even "Marooned"?

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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by KingQueenKnave »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:56 pm
KingQueenKnave wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:55 amGilmour led Floyd did not make music that appeals to me.
Not even "Marooned"?
It's ok, I guess...? I just find a lot of the songs on The Division Bell to be really boring. Even though "classic" Floyd had long stuff, it felt like it had a purpose or a reason for being that long.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:56 pmNot even "Marooned"?
My two cent: 'Marooned' (the same goes for 'Terminal Frost') are just ikable instrumentals, but you have to force yourself hard to like them. They are both missing a anxiety and edge of the Pink Floyd instrumentals from the past. It is enough for example, to compare them with Any Colour You Like or One Of These Days and see a big difference,
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by scarecrow »

To be a total pedant I'm gonna say I don't think Barrett was ever the band 'leader' in the way Gilmour or Waters were?

I've met several people who saw the band at UFO or elsewhere in '66 or '67 who say that the live sets were absolutely led by Syd and the audience focus on him, that he was totally exciting to watch and did have this whole vibe about him. If what Peter Jenner said to Disc Music and Echo in 1967 is correct, that Syd held a mantra that nobody should ever criticise anyone, then perhaps this approach in part led to this 'war' (as he later referred to it) between him and the others? I just have the impression his experience until then was of people just gravitating towards him without any particular effort on his part, and perhaps he wasn't equipped for being at odds with having little control over playing as many gigs as possible, doing every TV opportunity etc, and eventually being at loggerheads with Waters who (as Barrett later emphasised) was two or three years older than him (also can't help but feel that with Waters and Gilmour probably there was always this status of Gilmour being a few years below in school years).

Anyway, I like both Barrett and Gilmour's differing contributions, don't feel inclined to rank them, but as composers clearly Barrett has been quite a bit more influential than Gilmour, who was/ is very good at what he does but isn't massively innovative neither in guitar playing nor songwriting?

Also interesting that earlier on Barrett actually bemoaned how he wouldn't be able to persuade 'Fred' Gilmour to join a band with him.

I reckon that although AMLOR and TDB don't sound Barrett influenced in this slightest, I like that philosophically and temperamentally Gilmour in some ways brings the band closer to the Barrett era, in contrast with Waters' later direction... a relaxed trial and error, pure art sort of approach, and mostly thematically expansive or oblique.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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KingQueenKnave wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:31 pmI just find a lot of the songs on The Division Bell to be really boring. Even though "classic" Floyd had long stuff, it felt like it had a purpose or a reason for being that long.
space triangle wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:55 pmMy two cent: 'Marooned' (the same goes for 'Terminal Frost') are just ikable instrumentals, but you have to force yourself hard to like them. They are both missing a anxiety and edge of the Pink Floyd instrumentals from the past. It is enough for example, to compare them with Any Colour You Like or One Of These Days and see a big difference,
The format usually dictated how long the songs were. The Division Bell is a good 15 minutes longer than any of their previous albums (except The Wall) because they weren't trying to fit it on an LP anymore - and if they'd had their way, it would've been twice as long.

"Any Colour You Like" was originally just "Breathe (Second Reprise)" and really only existed to fill out the live set while they worked on the album - if the other songs had ended up running longer, it would've been cut. Gilmour singing scat over the same two chords, sometimes up to 15 minutes. "One of These Days" - mainly just Gilmour playing steel guitar over two chords. Both of those have a much faster tempo than "Terminal Frost" (which I agree is pretty boring, and one of my least favorite Floyd tracks) and "Marooned" (one of my all-time favorites, actually). But I think it's odd to just compare instrumentals, since any of the songs could've ended up as instrumentals, or had lyrics added.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by Annoying Twit »

If I had to make a choice, then whatever version of PF I choose to never listen to again, I will greatly regret.

I really think there's no best option, or even least worst option, for a question like this.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

I'd sooner give up The Wall and The Final Cut both instead of Piper and The Early Singles, but giving up Division Bell is not an option.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:06 pm I'd sooner give up The Wall and The Final Cut both instead of Piper and The Early Singles, but giving up Division Bell is not an option.
So Ziggy, for you Division Bell is better album than The Wall ? I respect you opinion but The Wall is one of the greatest (concept) albums of all time. It's the best sold double albums of all time(31 million units sold). Topping the U.S charts for 15 weeks.

I have nothing against Division Bell. I think it's good album, actually shows the best they could do without Roger.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:10 pmSo Ziggy, for you Division Bell is better album than The Wall?
"It's absolutely ridiculous to judge a record solely on sales. If you're going to use sales as the sole criterion, it makes Grease a better record than Graceland." - Roger Waters, 1987

I personally prefer to listen to Pink Floyd albums all the way through; it feels sacrilegious to shuffle them out of their original context for a playlist. With that said, The Wall, The Final Cut, and A Momentary Lapse of Reason are the only ones with tracks that I feel compelled to skip (though less so on the new AMLoR remix). Because of that, The Division Bell has been played in my house, my headphones, and my car exponentially more times than any of those three. It might have been the best they could do without Roger, but had Roger somehow been involved, it could've been a lot worse.
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Re: Barrett-led Floyd or Gilmour-led Floyd

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space triangle wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:10 pm I have nothing against Division Bell. I think it's good album, actually shows the best they could do without Roger.
I don't agree that TDB is the best they could have done without Roger. It is the best that they did do without Roger. but looking at other tracks both before and after, there was the potential to do more. The very best tracks on the patchy - in my opinion - AMLoR are better than anything on TDB. And, there are solo tracks on OAI and BC that are better than anything on TDB. TDB is a good album and in my opinion better overall than AMLoR. But, I think they definitely had it in them to do something even better.

TER left out of this comparison as it's very different from the other Gilmour era albums and not really comparable.