Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

[theaussiefloydian]

Of course the only 'bass polls' won by Waters in that or any other year were the ones in Gilmour's imagination.

A little bit facetious - Kerry never said that Gilmour complained about the polls. He just said that he remembers that Waters won some.
And space triangle quotes NME, which is all well and good but they're not the only polls surely.

[penguinzzz]

Of course the only 'bass polls' won by Waters in that or any other year were the ones in Gilmour's imagination.

A little bit facetious - Kerry never said that Gilmour complained about the polls. He just said that he remembers that Waters won some.
And space triangle quotes NME, which is all well and good but they're not the only polls surely.

It wasn't meant to be. The 'bass poll' quote is from an oft-cited Gilmour interview in which he talks about playing 'at least half' the bass on PF studio albums, and goes on to relate a story where Waters 'comes in and thanks him' for winning 'bass playing polls' (comes in from where? were they living together?)

Needless to say it's all nonsense.

[theaussiefloydian]

It wasn't meant to be. The 'bass poll' quote is from an oft-cited Gilmour interview in which he talks about playing 'at least half' the bass on PF studio albums, and goes on to relate a story where Waters 'comes in and thanks him' for winning 'bass playing polls' (comes in from where? were they living together?)

Needless to say it's all nonsense.

Ah, gotcha. I would imagine it's a bit of embellishment on Gilmour's part, and "half" is probably very much an exaggeration that probably comes out of his bass for "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" but it could also be a sarcastic jab at Waters that didn't land.

[ZiggyZipgun]

The 'bass poll' quote is from an oft-cited Gilmour interview in which he talks about playing 'at least half' the bass on PF studio albums, and goes on to relate a story where Waters 'comes in and thanks him' for winning 'bass playing polls' (comes in from where? were they living together?)

It's all from the same interview, apart from the clarification of who played what on Animals, which Gilmour faxed to a magazine in '98. But Roger directly responded to Dave's interview in '92 with his own, addressing a number of other points but ultimately shrugging off the suggestion that he even considered himself to be a musician.

(And I imagine he would "come in" to the studio, which is where they typically ran into each other.)

The whole Who played bass? debate comes from one article, which was originally published in Musician magazine in August 1992, with excerpts being published in others, such as Rock Compact Disc in September '92. The original was titled Careful With That Axe: David Gilmour Chops Through Pink Floyd's Past to Build a New Future by Matt Resnicoff. In December of that same year, he published Roger and Me: The Other Side of the Pink Floyd Story.

Both of these have often been quoted in these discussions, but out of context. I'm only posting the relevant portions of each interview, one in response to the other, as they were given.

MR: Was Roger an effective bassist back then?

DG: He had developed his own limited, or very simple style. He was never very keen on improving himself as a bass player and half the time I would play bass on the records because I would tend to do it quicker. Right back to those early records; I mean, at least half the bass on all recorded output is me anyway.

MR: This is not a widely acknowledged fact.

DG: Well, I think it's been said, but it's certainly not something we go around advertising. Rog used to come in and say, "Thank you very much" to me once in a while for winning him bass-playing polls.

MR: Did you play the fretless bass on "Hey You"?

DG: Yeah. Hmm. Roger playing fretless bass? Please! (laughs)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR: Is James Johnson actually Jimmy Johnson, the great five-string bassist?

RW: Yeah. He likes to be called James. I call him Steve. He's a very gentle man, and on 'What God Wants' I was going, 'This has got to have more aggression. What you're doing is too "Jimmy"; I want this to be more "Steve."' He's a great player. But the part I wanted more 'Steve,' somebody else played it. It's interesting, because it's the same bassline as 'Another Brick'; listen to it."

MR: In the video you're playing bass.

RW: Well, it's a pretend, but those videos always are, eh? I'd always thought it would be nice just to have cameras running the whole time we were recording, so that it was real. That would be the most watchable. But these things get made largely for MTV, and I'm not sure that they'd be interested in that sort of thing. They're much more interested in style and tennis shoes and baseball hats than music. I was never a bass player. I've never played anything. I play guitar a bit on the records and would play bass, because I sometimes want to hear the "sound" I make when I hit a string on a bass with a pick or my finger; it makes a different sound than anybody else makes, to me. But I've never been interested in playing the bass. I'm not interested in playing instruments and I never have been.

[penguinzzz]

It wasn't meant to be. The 'bass poll' quote is from an oft-cited Gilmour interview in which he talks about playing 'at least half' the bass on PF studio albums, and goes on to relate a story where Waters 'comes in and thanks him' for winning 'bass playing polls' (comes in from where? were they living together?)

Needless to say it's all nonsense.

Ah, gotcha. I would imagine it's a bit of embellishment on Gilmour's part, and "half" is probably very much an exaggeration that probably comes out of his bass for "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" but it could also be a sarcastic jab at Waters that didn't land.

You're right, it's an embellishment on both counts.

Poll-wise Waters did rather well in the early 70's, picking up 5th-7th place in the Melody Maker Poll for a few years running. Wright featured similarly, and Mason once or twice. Gilmour was absent, obviously in the face of stiff competition, though it might have rankled. It should be noted that most voters in those polls probably saw the artists live and based their votes accordingly (along with the fans who simply voted for everyone out of their favourite band!)

The 'half the studio bass' quote is clearly nonsensical if you do the maths with every song featuring Waters and Gilmour, and have a basic knowledge of how the band worked up their major pieces between stage and studio.

[Kerry King]

None of us were there. We're basing our comments on things we have read. Gilmour said Waters thanked him for his winning of certain bass polls. I based my statement on that. I assumed they were fan polls. If Gilmour lied...so be it. I trusted him. In the Pompeii film he said we could trust him! I'm not going to search around looking for some "proof" on the internet. I'm also not going to concern myself with which pickups were used on the fender precision played on Animals. I am willing to take Ziggy's word for that because it is not very important to me either way. I don't want to start a floyd tribute band.
I don't see how anyone can defend Water's recent comments. His insatiable need for credit.

[Gslatner]

. His insatiable need for credit.

That’s what this entire re-issue is about to Roger and why I believe no matter what is in the credits David ain’t letting it get released. I wish Roger had tried harder at his solo career because I think their would have been a lot less bickering had he felt successful enough.

[Wolfpack]

An attempt to collect all the mentions of names of Pink Floyd members in the Mark Blake liner notes:
"tribute to Syd Barrett, words by Roger Waters" (quote apparently added by guess who), "composed by Roger Waters", "written by Waters and David Gilmour", "Roger insisted", "Roger had an idea", "Waters portrays", "Roger’s instincts", "two new Waters songs", "Roger’s ire", "Nick Mason recalled lighter moments over dubbing songs" (sic), "Roger’s blackly comic variation", "Richard Wright’s eerie-sounding synths and Hammond organ", "David Gilmour’s shared lead vocal on Dogs and his guitar playing", "Roger’s brutal lyrics", "Roger’s lyrics and vocal performance", "also Roger’s", "Roger added", "another Water’s idea" (sic), "Roger called", "Roger’s ever more ambitious ideas".

Did I collect them all?

I find the liner notes written very badly, if only the sloppy writing style.
"Roger Waters", "Waters", "Roger", "Waters", "Roger", etc.
It's either "Roger" or "Waters", not both!

And isn't it "overdubbing", instead of "over dubbing"?

There's some interesting information, but I find it difficult to read in that repetitive chaos of "Roger" and "Waters".
If this is a taste of what Waters's memoirs book will be, I'm afraid it's going to be very boring.

[theaussiefloydian]

I find the liner notes written very badly, if only the sloppy writing style.

And this I imagine is why Gilmour didn't want these notes anywhere near this release, as opposed to the bizarre "Gilmour and Polly are ganging up against me" hill Waters has chosen to die on.
Also another thought I had on Waters' rant was his phrasing of what he believed Gilmour's role in the band was - "a jolly good guitarist and singer". This feels awfully backhanded to me, as it implies that Waters thinks Gilmour was there just to play guitar and sing and leave all the decisions to Waters. I could be reading too much into that, but it just doesn't strike me as the compliment it seems to be on the surface.

[ZiggyZipgun]

I'm also not going to concern myself with which pickups were used on the fender precision played on Animals. I am willing to take Ziggy's word for that because it is not very important to me either way. I don't want to start a floyd tribute band.

The bass on "Pigs" has a very distinctive tone that bass players speculated on for many years, and then the Interstellar Exhibition featured what they labeled as "the psychedelic bass" from Gilmour's collection, which was one of the few instruments excluded from his auction. He's never mentioned it himself, period - but it undoubtedly would've brought in a huge pile of money and furthered his diabolical narrative if he'd just said "This is the bass (either of them) used on 'Pigs'."

[Wolfpack]

And this I imagine is why Gilmour didn't want these notes anywhere near this release, as opposed to the bizarre "Gilmour and Polly are ganging up against me" hill Waters has chosen to die on.

Waters himself should have rejected those Blake liner notes. If only for the sloppy writing style.

Apart from the "Roger" and "Waters", the liner notes keep repeating that the words are by him.
Waters wrote the lyrics for all the songs on the album. Once that's obvious, it's obvious. There's no need to keep on emphasizing that. ("Roger’s ire", "Roger’s blackly comic variation", "Roger’s brutal lyrics", "Roger’s lyrics".) It just gets chaotic and... ridiculous.

Blake's text as published by Waters:

From these sessions the band developed Shine On You Crazy Diamond, (A passionate tribute to Syd Barrett, words by Roger Waters. Added by me, sorry couldn’t help it.) which became the centrepiece of Floyd’s next album, Wish You Were Here, and Raving And Drooling (composed by Roger Waters) and You Gotta Be Crazy written by Waters and David Gilmour.

The sloppy way of changing Blake's liner notes by just throwing in "(A passionate tribute to Syd Barrett, words by Roger Waters. Added by me, sorry couldn’t help it.)", in the middle of a sentence, is just an erroneous writing style.
One shouldn't put a period (".") in the middle of a sentence. And there's no obvious distinction from Blake's text. (Like, who exactly is that "added by me"?)

Apparently, Blake's text is:

From these sessions the band developed Shine On You Crazy Diamond, which became the centrepiece of Floyd’s next album, Wish You Were Here, and Raving And Drooling (composed by Roger Waters) and You Gotta Be Crazy written by Waters and David Gilmour.

Or... is "(composed by Roger Waters)" also added by the "me" person?
Why is that in parentheses, while "written by Waters and David Gilmour" is not?
If Blake wrote it that way, it's just sloppy. If Waters redacted it that way, it's just sloppy.

[penguinzzz]

None of us were there. We're basing our comments on things we have read. Gilmour said Waters thanked him for his winning of certain bass polls. I based my statement on that. I assumed they were fan polls. If Gilmour lied...so be it. I trusted him. In the Pompeii film he said we could trust him! I'm not going to search around looking for some "proof" on the internet. I'm also not going to concern myself with which pickups were used on the fender precision played on Animals. I am willing to take Ziggy's word for that because it is not very important to me either way. I don't want to start a floyd tribute band.
I don't see how anyone can defend Water's recent comments. His insatiable need for credit.

Fair enough, you included the quote so I thought you might find the facts interesting. I didn't have to search the internet as I remember the polls myself!

I've no particular interest in Waters' recent comments. I learned some time ago to be skeptical regarding older artists' statements on their past career.

I'm looking forward to hearing the new Animals mix as it's my favourite PF album. Though with no extra content my interest is limited.

[penguinzzz]

The 'bass poll' quote is from an oft-cited Gilmour interview in which he talks about playing 'at least half' the bass on PF studio albums, and goes on to relate a story where Waters 'comes in and thanks him' for winning 'bass playing polls' (comes in from where? were they living together?)

It's all from the same interview, apart from the clarification of who played what on Animals, which Gilmour faxed to a magazine in '98. But Roger directly responded to Dave's interview in '92 with his own, addressing a number of other points but ultimately shrugging off the suggestion that he even considered himself to be a musician.

(And I imagine he would "come in" to the studio, which is where they typically ran into each other.)

Thanks for posting those quotes yet again. I'm surprised you didn't include the photos of Gilmour playing bass at the OBC sessions you're so fond of.

None of that makes any difference to the 'most of the studio bass' claim clearly being an exaggeration, which anyone interested in the facts of the band's history would want to correct.

[ZiggyZipgun]

None of that makes any difference to the 'most of the studio bass' claim clearly being an exaggeration, which anyone interested in the facts of the band's history would want to correct.

Hard facts aren't available. If Roger had recorded the bass parts for 'most' of their songs, he probably wouldn't say things like, "I was never a bass player, I've never played anything" and "I've never been interested in playing the bass." Meanwhile Dave said that he'd do it just because it would get done quicker; the significance of the Obscured By Clouds sessions is that is was recorded very quickly, but nowhere is Gilmour credited with playing bass on that album. Also, he seems to have owned and modified a lot of basses for someone who officially only played bass on six songs. He auctioned off all of the instruments that he could replace, but he kept that one; Roger used the sunburst bass that he played at Pompeii as payment for remodeling work he had done on his house. How ironic would it have been if he'd used it to pay one of the session bass players on When the Wind Blows, Amused to Death, ITTLWRW, or even "Flickering Flame"?

[ZiggyZipgun]

Bass Player Magazine, 1998:
“About your Classic Revisited piece on Pink Floyd’s Animals [March ’98]:
I don’t think I’ve ever described Roger Water’s bass playing as “horrible.” If I did I must have been having a bad day. He was a good bass player when he wanted to be – which he often didn’t – and when he didn’t he often asked me to take over the chore. On Animals Roger played bass on “Dogs” and I played bass on “Sheep” and “Pigs.” Most of the bass line on “Sheep” (apart from the ending) was what Roger had been playing onstage, as we had been performing it as “Raving and Drooling” for a couple of years. However, in the studio Roger had a rhythm guitar part he wanted to play, so we swapped roles. On “Pigs” the part and the playing are mine."
David Gilmour, via fax