Animals re-issue including 5.1 mix coming

[theaussiefloydian]

There's a Football team mentality. Doctor Who (Doctor freaking Who!!) fandom has that infection.

Which is pretty much the reason I stopped interacting with other Doctor Who fans online and just enjoy the Classic Collection Blu-Rays by myself. The constant infighting just got exhausting. It's also to some extent why my activity on this forum can fluctuate, because I'm passionate about Pink Floyd and will share my two cents on what's going on but when everyone starts getting into punchups over it, it can be tiring

[azza200]

There is a guy in the floyd comment's section in the Live 8 post where he is claiming its David to blame for no Wall footage & The Wall live album on streaming services etc and he is blocking it in spite of Roger

some of this guy's idiotic post's
his first post

Oh you haven't figured it out yet? Dave's not going to release anything that makes Roger shine even one bit.
Why do you think that awesome live Wall album is basically out of print and not available on streaming services?

It was David's idea to release the live Wall album. Roger initially didn't want to and had to be talked into it by his son. Roger is also the one blocking an official release of the footage from the original Wall tour.

his response too that

So where is the album now? Why is it not listed on their official page with the rest of the albums? Why is it not on streaming services? That's got nothing to do with Roger, and everything to do with Gilmour constantly promoting HIS version of Floyd's (Pink Floyd Music (1987) Ltd.) releases vs the original, ACTUAL Pink Floyd (Pink Floyd Music Ltd.).
Meanwhile, Gilmour is busy releasing every single concert from the 90's (and removing embarrassing reggae breakdowns and funky, fretless bass parts) apparently that no one asked for (see the comments clamoring for back catalog updated releases) and photoshopping Rick into AMLOR so he can rewrite history.
For the 1000th time, the original Wall footage is absolute crap, with a few exceptions. That's the only reason it was never released in full (and only seen in snippets). It makes no sense that the supposedly ego driven Roger would stop the release if the quality was acceptable.
You think Roger is the reason the Wall live album has disappeared like it never existed? Or does it make more sense that Dave would rather only have newer live versions available, rather than remind fans of the greatness that once was the 4-man Floyd?

[azza200]

There's a Football team mentality. Doctor Who (Doctor freaking Who!!) fandom has that infection.

Which is pretty much the reason I stopped interacting with other Doctor Who fans online and just enjoy the Classic Collection Blu-Rays by myself. The constant infighting just got exhausting. It's also to some extent why my activity on this forum can fluctuate, because I'm passionate about Pink Floyd and will share my two cents on what's going on but when everyone starts getting into punchups over it, it can be tiring

I agree its very tiring these Roger V David arguments in the fandom. People gate keep Roger and everything he says as gospel and that the others are just session musicians. Amount of people lately who claim to be Floyd fans i have seen and say David is an average guitar player the usual polly bashing his lyrics etc etc.

[Kerry King]

What's bizarre about the criticism Gilmour gets for not writing his own lyrics is that many people do not write their own lyrics. Elvis Presley, Elton John, Levon Helm, Frank Sinatra, Marvin Gaye, Nina Simone

...Jerry Garcia

[ZiggyZipgun]

...Jerry Garcia

I wouldn't know; personally, I will never understand the appeal.

[Kerry King]

...Jerry Garcia

I wouldn't know; personally, I will never understand the appeal.

Robert Hunter wrote all of his lyrics with the exception of 2 or 3 early songs. A lot of GD fans are also PF fans. I think there's some worthwhile stuff from the 1970s. The dead were cutting edge when it came to sound quality at their concerts. They had a lot to do with the invention of rock and roll PA systems. Garcia, like Gilmour, had amazing tone. Garcia took more chances when soloing which meant that he fell on his face more often. Gilmour improvised less and less as the final decade with Waters unfolded. Check out the improv in the middle of the song Playing In The Band from August 27, 1972, Veneta, Oregon. You'll catch a big glimpse of the appeal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhWc8WUJQkg

[ZiggyZipgun]

Oh, I am...painfully aware of them. In the same pile of cassettes my sister gave me - along with Relics, my introduction to Pink Floyd - was Skeletons from the Closet, which didn't make anywhere near the same impression on me. And a number of my friends have been quit-your-job-to-follow-them-around Dead Heads - some have even been devoted bootleggers! And, like the example you shared, many of them have said, "no, just listen to this and you'll get it" - but I still do not get it. I don't know how high I'd have to be to appreciate it, but apparently chronic isn't strong enough.

Stylistically, to me, it just sounds sloppy. There's a lot of blues, a little bluegrass, and some repetitive jazz-influenced soloing, but it never sounds like they know where they are once they stray outside of the pentatonic scale. I'm also not a fan of The Doors or Santana, but Robbie Krieger and Carlos knew what they were doing and sounded like they knew what they were doing. I'm sure I haven't heard all 450-some songs in their repertoire, but I don't know of any distinct melodies that people associate with The Grateful Dead, let alone a guitar riff as memorable as....any guitar riff on Wish You Were Here.

I experience a similar queasiness when anyone suggests that, since I like Pink Floyd, I'll love Rush.

I think "Dogs" is a perfect example of how Gilmour continued to explore and take chances, basically contructing a scale that let him improvise all over the neck while still being able to rein it in for the two-part (and on the album, three-part) melodic riffs. Once Roger went all Andrew Lloyd Webber on everyone, Dave said there were very few moments where anyone could improvise. He's never performed anything from The Final Cut, but there are a few sections that used an approach similar to "Dogs" - particularly "Your Possible Pasts". He's only played "A Great Day For Freedom" once since his acoustic shows in 2002, and during the Gdańsk performance you can watch in real-time as he surprises himself and keeps it going for an extra minute or two, even with an orchestra in tow.

[mosespa]

Them: "I can't believe that you love Pink Floyd and hate the Grateful Dead."

Me: "I know this sounds funny coming from a Floyd fan, but the Dead are too mellow for my liking. At least Pink Floyd was going to cut you into little pieces, one of these days."

I like exactly 3 Grateful Dead songs...and they are all off of the "In The Dark" album. Everything else I've ever heard by them (and I've heard A LOT by them,) sounds to me like a country band desperately trying to convince themselves that they can play rock...but never actually do play what I consider rock.

Re: Waters vs Gilmour; both were in the right and each was also in the wrong. They're human. It works like that. We fans are also human. In taking sides on this, each of us is right and each of us is wrong. Consequently, we all tend to defend whichever one we've individually chosen to take the side of.

Because it seems as though there are sides to choose.

For myself, although much of AMLOR is regrettable, it WAS awesome to have a "new Pink Floyd album" my Sophomore year; although a couple of years later "From The Greenhouse" by Crack The Sky would have more Floydian atmosphere in it's opening minute than most of AMLOR.

I felt that TDB was a step in the right direction for a Waters-less Floyd, though "High Hopes" deeply made me wish they had SOMEONE who would've told them "that's crap and you're ripping off Alan Parsons; toss it and let's do something else."

The Endless Drivel is good dish-washing music, I guess. *shrug*

[Kerry King]

sounds to me like a country band

Listen to the improv from the link I provided. Country? Hardly a trace.

And yeah, I believe you can love pf and hate the gd. Easily.

[ZiggyZipgun]

You'll catch a big glimpse of the appeal.

I've sat through this a few times now but I somehow keep missing it. To me, it sounds like very average musicians asking each other, "Is it jazz yet?" Maybe it's the opposite of my issue with the band Yes, who are all undoubtedly gifted and knowledgeable musicians, but it's almost never not jazz. (Gilmour's response to Johnny Rotten's "I HATE PINK FLOYD" t-shirt: “It would have been too boring to have ‘I Hate Yes’ on his T-shirt.”)

There's a tangent I could go off on about intervals, the spaces in between Debussy's notes, and the notes Miles Davis didn't play. Improvising is about resolving the notes that you've already played. Moving around one semitone at a time is never going to lead anywhere interesting, no matter how fast you play the notes.

Also, Gilmour wouldn't have to outsource the job to come up with more memorable lyrics than those in "Playing in the Band".

[theaussiefloydian]

Maybe it's the opposite of my issue with the band Yes, who are all undoubtedly gifted and knowledgeable musicians, but it's almost never not jazz.

(quick obligatory acknowledgement of how far off topic we've found ourselves)
I find that Yes is best listened to in small doses. You're absolutely that they're obviously very talented musicians, but I've only ever been able to get through an album of theirs once (I think it was Fragile), and in general if I'm going to listen to Yes it's probably just going to be "Roundabout" or "Heart of the Sunrise" (or "Owner of a Lonely Heart").

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

Maybe it's the opposite of my issue with the band Yes, who are all undoubtedly gifted and knowledgeable musicians, but it's almost never not jazz.

(quick obligatory acknowledgement of how far off topic we've found ourselves)
I find that Yes is best listened to in small doses. You're absolutely that they're obviously very talented musicians, but I've only ever been able to get through an album of theirs once (I think it was Fragile), and in general if I'm going to listen to Yes it's probably just going to be "Roundabout" or "Heart of the Sunrise" (or "Owner of a Lonely Heart").

I love Starship Trooper but yes, it's hard to get into Yes. Even ELP had the comedy angle.
So... That Animals, eh?

[ZiggyZipgun]

I find that Yes is best listened to in small doses.

I can listen to Yes for a day or two, once a year. I can listen to The Doors for a day or two, once every ten years. Somewhere in between is how often I revisit Roger Waters' solo albums. Close to the Edge is somehow my favorite Yes album, but indeed, "Heart of the Sunrise" is an epic. Rick Wakeman was playing on Bowie's Hunky Dory when he replaced Tony Kaye and ended up re-recording parts for "Heart of the Sunrise", and in between those two albums, Steve Howe and Wakeman played as sessions musicians on Lou Reed's self-titled solo debut; a few years later, Tony Kaye joined Bowie's touring band during his Thin White Duke tour ("Isolar I"). They each add a lot in other musical contexts, but when Yes gets together, it can be too much. Interesting to note that while "Echoes" was constructed similarly to many Yes songs, it was actually Yes' engineer that did the assembly work, which they would then have to learn to play after the fact.

[Kerry King]

Also, Gilmour wouldn't have to outsource the job to come up with more memorable lyrics than those in "Playing in the Band".

Well, you'll find a lot of good Robert Hunter lyrics if you want to. Check out Box Of Rain or Brown Eyed Women or Stella Blue. And Bernie Taupin is a much better example of a lyricist who is less gifted with words than Gilmour. Of course, in his defense, it was Bernie's job to keep the lyrical content safe and mediocre. Radio-friendly.
Anyway, Playing In The Band is about improvising. Lyrics are not the priority. Garcia didn't even write that song. He jammed his ass off in 106 degree heat that day. Gave all the money to the Springfield Creamery.

Improvising is about resolving the notes that you've already played. Moving around one semitone at a time is never going to lead anywhere interesting, no matter how fast you play the notes.

Not sure how qualified you are to speak about improvising or "jazz". I'd have to hear you play. But, hey, I didn't expect you to start liking the Dead. Sure, Sun Ra's intervals are larger more often. And maybe you don't think Charlie Parker playing 280 beats per minute demonstrates any skill. Sure, you could go off on a tangent about Miles or Debussy but so could I. I'd much rather you shut up and show us what you can do. Many lame musicians talk a good game. They talk instead of playing. They analyze others work but fail to do anything worthwhile themselves. In other words, they're full of shit. It's fine with me if you think Garcia sucks, but to say the Dead only move a semitone at a time is absurd. You must know that.

PS: Yes has some of the worst lyrics of all time

Speaking of intervals...Gilmour does some nice leaps on Animals.

[ZiggyZipgun]

To say the Dead only move a semitone at a time is absurd.

I was very specifically referring to the lead guitar in the section of the song that you recommended; their part (I guess it's Jerry Garcia but I really don't know who does what or why it takes that many musicians to do what they do) is built entirely around a repetitive pattern of very close intervals, and never really leaves the two chords that they dwell on for what seemed like a very long time. It gets loud. It gets soft. It gets loud again. It ends as predictably as it began, just not nearly as soon as I'd hoped.

Improvising is about resolving the notes that you've already played.

You can play whatever you want, but if you're just hammering away on non-chord-tones, you have to resolve them in some way. The four-note refrain of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was an accident, but they developed it and let it dictate the tonality of the entire piece. The chord voicings and scales Gilmour used on "Dogs" let him play whatever he wanted, as long as he started and ended on a particular note. "Echoes" is even longer than "Playing in the Band", but so many different things happened in between that you really don't expect it to return to another verse - it could've lead anywhere.

Fuck you for tricking me into listening to that song four or five times, man. Seriously. I feel the need to shower.