Should Dave Gilmour give up the pink floyd name?

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Post by grateful pink »

I think that "Pink Floyd" should be over and done with. There is nothing new, musically, that they have to offer. I f the original members did get back together again (that is, Roger came back :lol: ), then they might have some good new material between them. But getting them to produce it would be a whole other thing entirely. Don't think it can be done.

"Running over the same old ground...."
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Post by NewEarthMud »

madcap69 wrote:If Gilmour dont want to continue why doesn't he give up the name and let Mason and Wright do with it what they want.
Because that would be even more horrendous than the lineup they have now.
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Post by madcap69 »

Because that would be even more horrendous than the lineup they have now.[/quote]

Well then they should offically retire it. Instead of Gilmour saying I don't want to say that it's over. But I don't feel like putting the effort in an album or tour. Both Mason and wright have said theyed like to tour again. So if there going to be a band they should do something. And not redo wish you were here for the 30th anniversary. I think you get what I mean.
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Post by Keith Jordan »

Roger Waters was only 1/4 of the band mathematically. No behavioural equation here. Some peoeple attach more that 25% of the weight to this man. Some think he is more like 75% of the band! I am of the opinion he was worth more than his 25% but the the majority should rule. If Roger leaves then the rest of the band should have the right - and it is morally correct - to carry on with the band they are in and have been in for a long time if their combined weight is greater or equal to that of Roger Waters. I suppose it all depends on the weight you attach to Roger. That is what tips the balance of what is right and wrong. And from this analysis, I can only conclude that it is neither moral nor imoral for the band to continue. It is not an issue that has a definitive answer as it is a matter of opinion and there is no real solution or a place we can all arrive, with our competing positions, in equilibrium.

DISCUSS. :)
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Post by Tommy »

roger - 35%
dave - 30%
rick - 20%
nick - 15%

hmm, thats what i think
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Post by madcap69 »

Don't you think Syd deserves any of the percentage?
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IMO

Post by Real Pink in the Inside »

Off the top of my head:

Roger: 60%
David: 30%
Rick: 9% (Nothing after WYWH)
Nick: 1%
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Post by Real Pink in the Inside »

I should add that I think Syd Barrett was essentially Pink Floyd on PATGOD.

I also do not consider DB and MLOR "Pink Floyd - 60%." I think Roger, David and Rick all wrote some great stuff found on More, AHM, Meddle, OBC, DSOTM and WYWH. I do not like anything David and Rick wrote for DB and MLOR. Rick did essentially nothing after WYWH until DB, and even before WYWH his contribution to the band was not as "great" as Roger's and David's. Roger and David continued to contribute after WYWH, with Roger clearly contributing more.

What am I getting at? I don't know. I think I've lost my mind :lol:
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Post by David Smith »

Yeah Roger was only roughly a quarted of the band. Now here's why i think this, so don't misquote me.

Albums by Pink Floyd: 14

Albums dictated by Roger: 4, i don't think we can claim DSOTM.
Amount dictated by Dave: 2
Amount dicacted by Syd: 1
Amount as a unit: 7

Therefore half the bands albums were done by them as a unit rather than a dictatirship of someone. This came before Roger's period and Dave's. They may not have been a huge band then, but still, they still did just as much work as a unit than they did under dictatorship.

I think it's worth pointing out that Roger dicated 28.6% of the albums pink floyd did as was part of the band as a BASSIST for 57% of them. This means for a majority of the work he was just a bassist. granted a contributing bassist, but a bassist.

Now the quality has little to do with it, you could say Roger brought out the best in the band, yet DSOTM was a democracy and was their best album.

Actually if Animals is better than Meddle it means nothing because that's preference from the listener. The band aren't just one member, especially when this member dicated only 28% of the albums.
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Post by Keith Jordan »

A good thesis, David, warrenting further exploration!!! :)
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Post by Real Pink in the Inside »

Here is the down-low on who wrote what for all of their studio albums from SOS-TFC (Songs exclusive to Relics included).

If you come across any errors, please point them out.

----------------

Pink Floyd songs written solely by Waters:

Let There Be More Light - Waters
Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun - Waters
Corporal Clegg - Waters
Cirrus Minor - Waters
The Nile Song - Waters
Crying Song - Waters
Green Is The Colour - Waters
Cymbaline - Waters
Grantchester Meadows - Waters
Several Species... - Waters
If - Waters
Julia Dream - Waters
Bidding My Time - Waters
San Tropez - Waters
Free Four - Waters
Money - Waters
Brain Damage - Waters
Eclipse - Waters
Welcome To The Machine - Waters
Have A Cigar - Waters
Pigs On The Wing (Part One) - Waters
Pigs (Three Different Ones) - Waters
Sheep - Waters
Pigs On The Wing (Part Two) - Waters
In The Flesh? - Waters
The Thin Ice - Waters
Another Brick In The Wall (Part I) - Waters
The Happiest Days Of Our Lives - Waters
Another Brick In The Wall (Part II) - Waters
Mother - Waters
Goodbye Blue Sky - Waters
Empty Spaces - Waters
One Of My Turns - Waters
Don't Leave Me Now - Waters
Another Brick In The Wall (Part III) - Waters
Goodbye Cruel World - Waters
Hey You - Waters
Is There Anybody Out There? - Waters
Nobody Home - Waters
Vera - Waters
Bring The Boys Back Home - Waters
The Show Must Go On - Waters
In The Flesh - Waters
Waiting For The Worms - Waters
Stop - Waters
Outside The Wall - Waters
The Post War Dream - Waters
Your Possible Pasts - Waters
One Of The Few - Waters
The Hero's Return - Waters
The Gunners Dream - Waters
Paranoid Eyes - Waters
Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert - Waters
The Fletcher Memorial Home - Waters
Southhampton Dock - Waters
The Final Cut - Waters
Not Now John - Waters
Two Suns In The Sunset - Waters

Total: 58 songs (Note: 46 songs if you exclude TFC)

----

Pink Floyd songs written solely by Gilmour:

A Spanish Piece - Gilmour
The Narrow Way (Parts I-III) - Gilmour
Fat Old Sun - Gilmour
Childhood's End - Gilmour

Total: 4 songs (6 if you count The Narrow Way as three songs)

----

Pink Floyd songs written solely by Wright:

Remember A Day - Wright
See Saw - Wright
Sysyphus (Parts I-IV) - Wright
Summer 68 - Wright
Paint Box - Wright
The Great Gig In The Sky - Wright

Total: 6 songs (9 if you count Sysyphus as four songs)

----

Pink Floyd songs written by Gilmour and Waters:

A Pillow Of Winds - Gilmour/Waters
Fearless - Gilmour/Waters
Obscured By Clouds - Waters/Gilmour
The Gold It's In The... - Waters/Gilmour
Wots...Uh The Deal? - Waters/Gilmour
On The Run - Gilmour/Waters
Wish You Were Here - Waters/Gilmour
Dogs - Waters/Gilmour
Young Lust - Waters/Gilmour
Comfortably Numb - Gilmour/Waters
Run Like Hell - Gilmour/Waters

Total: 11 songs

----

Pink Floyd songs written by Waters and Wright:

Burning Bridges - Waters/Wright
Stay - Waters/Wright
Us And Them - Waters/Wright

Total: 3 songs

----

Pink Floyd songs written by Gilmour, Waters, and Wright (And Mason in some cases):

A Saucerful Of Secrets - Waters/Wright/Mason/Gilmour
Party Sequence - Waters/Wright/Gilmour/Mason
Main Theme - Waters/Wright/Gilmour/Mason
Ibiza Bar - Waters/Wright/Gilmour/Mason
More Blues - Waters/Wright/Gilmour/Mason
Quicksilver - Waters/Wright/Gilmour/Mason
Dramatic Piece - Waters/Wright/Gilmour
Atom Heart Mother - Mason/Gilmour/Waters/Wright/Geesin
Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast - Waters/Mason/Gilmour/Wright
Careful With That Axe, Eugene - Waters/Wright/Mason/Gilmour
One Of These Days - Waters/Wright/Mason/Gilmour
Seamus - Mason/Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Echoes - Mason/Gilmour/Waters/Wright
When You're In - Mason/Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Absolutely Curtains - Mason/Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Breathe In The Air - Waters/Gilmour/Wright
Time - Mason/Waters/Wright/Gilmour
Breathe (Reprise) - Waters/Wright/Gilmour
Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-V) - Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts VI-IX) - Waters/Wright/Gilmour

Total: 20 songs (Note: I treated SOYCD as two songs for simplification)

----

Other:

Jugband Blues - Barrett
Up The Khyber - Mason/Wright
The Grand Vizier's Garden Party (Parts I-III) - Mason
Mudmen - Gilmour/Wright
Speak To Me - Mason
Any Colour You Like - Gilmour/Mason/Wright
The Trial - Waters/Ezrin

Total: 7 songs (9 if you count GVGP as three songs)

----

Number of songs each had a hand in WRITING:

Waters - 93 songs
Gilmour - 37 songs (39 if you consider The Narrow Way as three songs)
Wright - 32 songs (35 if you consider Sysyphus as four songs)

----

The numbers do not lie.

In addition to writing the vast majority of Pink Floyd's material, Roger Waters wrote ALL of the lyrics from DSOTM-TFC. Roger also sang more songs than anyone else in the band during his tenure in the group.
I think it's worth pointing out that Roger dicated 28.6% of the albums pink floyd did as was part of the band as a BASSIST for 57% of them. This means for a majority of the work he was just a bassist. granted a contributing bassist, but a bassist.
Oh, did you know that Paul McCartney was JUST The Beatles' bassist? OH, sorry, I must add, "granted a contributing bassist, but a bassist." :lol:

Don't be absurd, mate. :D

When you say an album was a "group effort," or however you want to word it, you're acting like EVERYONE contributed an equal amount to the album in question. Simply because EVERONE pitched in a relatively significant amount does not mean everyone contributed an equal amount to the album. It's like saying, "Everyone involved with company X are completely equal because they all make company X run." While it may be true everyone in the company makes it run, so to speak, that does not mean everyone is equally contributing to the said company. For example, a CEO contributes more to a company than someone at the "bottom of the ladder who is working their way up," so to speak.

Do you know what I mean?
Yeah Roger was only roughly a quarted of the band.
Roger + David + Rick + Nick MUST BE EQUAL TO 100% (Leaving Syd out of the picture for obvious reasons)

If Roger was roughly 25% of the band, as you argue, that means everyone else must have been roughly 25% of the band too, OR someone other than Roger must have contributed MORE than roughly 25%. Do you see the obvious conundrum you have put yourself into by stating, "Roger was only roughly a quarter of the band"?
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Post by David Smith »

Ok, so the theory does need work.

By the way, can you honestly claim up until DSOTM Roger actually seemed like a dictator. He was a bassist then, and although pink floyd only get their titles as legends after Meddle, i think his work up until then doesn't show.

What are you giving Roger the credits for? if you mean music that's because he wrote the bass line before anything else was added by anyone else, that's qhat bass players do, write a bassline. Is the bass on Julia Dream particularly strong? i don't think so, and i also know that the organ and guitars on that song are more innovative.

It's harder to write songs on guitar than bass because whe it's a guitarist like Gilmour who is riff based it helps to have a rythm to chuck the licks on to.

I think it's fair to say that all the best songs were written as a collaberation between 2 or more members of the band. Bass is a rythm instrument so it makes sense to write the basic tune for the song on it or the drums rather than writing riffs and intros for a song with no rhthm. And seeing as Nick was a bit lazy it puts pressure on Roger to write the song. Having been in a band myself i know it's easier to write bass before guitar.

Do you think songs like Echoes and fearless owe more to Roger than Dave? I wouldn't say so.

Not including Syd now:

Ok, out of the 13 albums Roger dictated 30% In this era i would think him to be 80% behind the ideas and about 30% behind the music. For obvious reason he may be able to suggest to dave, but he couldn't write Dogs on the lead could he?

Dave dicated 15% of the 13 albums.

55% was dictated by the band as a unit. No body can claim exra credits here, Roger wasn't yet a talented lyracist and i feel to give him credit for writing Biding My Time is ridiculous. he wrote the bass FIRST but he didn't write the rest of the music.

Your stats look impressive, but on close inspection a huge number are just from TW or TFC which are part of the Roger Waters era. My point is this is just an era because only 30% of the bands output was dictated by Roger.

For his small era Roger deserves a lot of credit, hence almost a third of pink floyd's output being credited to him by me here, and he of course collaberated in another 55%. Although i don't think his collaberations deserve him 65% of what the bands output was cosidering he only actually dicated 30% and played bass on the rest.
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Post by Real Pink in the Inside »

David Smith wrote:By the way, can you honestly claim up until DSOTM Roger actually seemed like a dictator.
Of course not, but I am not going to pretend EVERYONE contributed an equal amount to each album prior to DSOTM.
He was a bassist then,
Bassist, singer, songwriter, and guitarist on a few tracks, and I'm probably forgetting some other stuff. He was not JUST the bassist at any point. That sounds so ridiculous. I would love to see you state on a Beatles board that Paul was ever just the bassist for The Beatles. :lol:
What are you giving Roger the credits for?
It's abundantly clear.
if you mean music that's because he wrote the bass line before anything else was added by anyone else, that's qhat bass players do, write a bassline.
Writing the bassline to a song someone else came up with on the guitar or piano, for example, is VERY different from coming up with a bassline to a new song by yourself. There's a significant difference between creating a song on your own with whatever instrument and adding certain instrument parts to a song someone else came up with.
I think it's fair to say that all the best songs were written as a collaberation between 2 or more members of the band.
What is "best" is rather subjective.
Do you think songs like Echoes and fearless owe more to Roger than Dave? I wouldn't say so.
Well, Roger did write the lyrics. If a song is made up of music and lyrics, it could be argued the lyrics are half of the song. Roger also helped write the music.
30% In this era i would think him to be 80% behind the ideas and about 30% behind the music.
This is just ridiculous. By stating "30% behind the music," you're basically coming off as if David had more to do with the music on The Wall and The Final Cut than Roger, and that's totally ridiculous.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "behind the ideas"?
55% was dictated by the band as a unit. No body can claim exra credits here,
So do you think Nick should get as much credit for these albums as Roger, David, and Rick? :lol:
Roger wasn't yet a talented lyracist and i feel to give him credit for writing Biding My Time is ridiculous. he wrote the bass FIRST but he didn't write the rest of the music.
I can essentially play Biding My Time on the alto sax. If the band had wanted me to add in sax parts to the tune Roger came up with, did I write the song with Roger? NO!!!!! I simply decorated the song, which was created solely by Roger!
but on close inspection a huge number are just from TW or TFC which are part of the Roger Waters era
So what? I mean, The Wall is ONLY Pink Floyd's second best-selling album worldwide and their best-selling album in the USA! It was only their last HUGE hit! It's only the last great album of the '70s! Yeah, it should have less weight than an album like Ummagumma!
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Post by Spinoza »

Instead of making up a list of SONGS written by each member ( well that will count very well with The Wall and all its short "songs" ) we could also make up a list of Floydclassics and measure via this list the "importance" or contribution of each member. It's too late now for me, so i invite you all to make a list of 15-20 famous/classic Floydsongs and the credits to those songs. GO!
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Post by Real Pink in the Inside »

What would be the point of that, Spinoza? Ask everyone in here to come up with their favorite 15 Floyd songs, and I guarantee you all of the lists will be unique.