Floyd musical direction if Syd had stayed

[Peter Beasley]

If a capable Syd had stayed with Floyd, what musical direction would they have followed?

Would there have been a struggle between Syd wanting to persue short, lyrical, child like pop tunes and Roger (and Nick and Rick?) wanting to explore the longer, classical influenced and largely instrumental direction they'd already begun to take?

[moodyblue]

Not a question anybody can really answer but one can always pontificate the various directions the group may have taken but one question begs an answer, would we have got to hear the wonderful guitar playing of David Gilmour if Syd would have stayed with it ?
In all honesty, Syd was born who he was and maybe he would have gone down the road he chose at some point in his life even if he had stayed 'with it' for another album or two but we will never know.

[mosespa]

Okay...I'm going to assume that we're assuming that Syd didn't break, either.

This being the case, I think we'd have seen the material on Madcap and Barrett, only as Pink Floyd albums. I think that eventually, the "experimental" mindset of their live shows might have started working it's way into their studio recordings...but it's just as equally plausible (IMO) that Syd would have eventually felt that Pink Floyd had gone as far as it could have.

If the next two albums had failed to sell as well as Piper, their label probably would have dropped them, anyway.

I don't think they'd have been around as long as they were.

There is the possiblity that Waters and Wright might have pursued solo careers upon the demise of the band and that elements of all the PF albums that never were might have shown up in those.

[Alternative 4]

Well Syd talked about a bigger sound. So I think they would ahve brought Dave in as a second guitarist and the backing singers. The sound would ahve been ahead of its time and they would have turned into something special but completely different.

Or more probably they would have faded away with Psychadelia.

[my breakfast.]

The band might have sounded more like Amon Duul II, or Hawkwind?

[DoctorFloyd]

I don't really think this is a useful post, as no one could ever tell, and personally, What If's irritate me.

[Alternative 4]

I don't really think this is a useful post, as no one could ever tell, and personally, What If's irritate me.

Even if you were a swan?

[Tenniru]

If they kept Syd in his condition, it would've been very difficult and we certainly wouldn't have seen any of the Floyd we know post-Ummagumma.
Assuming they got Syd to keep writing songs and waited for most of 1968, he would've only had Swan Lee, Golden Hair, Effervescing Elephant, maybe a finished Beechwoods, the mysterious Millionare, and that's about it. Assuming ASOS wouldn't happen wtihout Gilmour's involvement and Corporal Clegg would've stayed One In A Million, (and See-Saw and It Would Be So Nice wasn't forced out of Rick because of a Sydless desperation), we'd see:

-One In A Million
-Swan Lee
-Golden Hair
-Effervescing Elephant
-Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun
-Reaction In G
-Beechwoods
-Millionare

And hailing as rejects from earlier:

-Jugband Blues
-Scream Thy Last Scream
-Vegetable Man
-Remember A Day

This would've made a kickass album, but not worth sacrificing everything post-Ummagumma along with Dave.

In 1969, assuming the train of inspiration continued normally, we'd have all of The Madcap Laughs except Golden Hair (already out), and Love You/She Took A Long Cold Look/Feel/If It's In You would be out entirely due to their lack in quality. Here I Go was so spontaneous that it wouldn't exist in this timeline. Opel and Lanky would still exist as well. We wouldn't have Point Me At The Sky, but assuming the More producer still approached the band, we'd have the Waters-made songs about most of the plot. (Let's be safe and assume Cirrus Minor, Crying Song, A Spanish Piece, and Narrow Way wouldn't exist due to diffirent environment.)
Dealing with the record company scene would still affect Roger, so let's assume Cymbaline would exist.
We have:

-Terrapin
-No Man's Land
-No Good Trying
-Dark Globe
-Octopus
-Long Gone
-Late Night
-Careful With That Axe, Eugene
-Julia Dream
-The Nile Song
-Iziba Bar
-Green Is The Colour
-Cymbaline
-Biding My Time
-Embryo
-Lanky/Rhamadan
-Opel
-Sysyphus
-Grantchester Meadows
-SSOSFAGIACAGWAP
-Grand Vizer's Garden Party

And that's enough for two, maybe three albums if you get Sysyphus and Lanky live up to their instrumental power. Good albums, although you'll have rapid switches between hard rock and mellow stuff (although the harder rock would likely be lost due to the lack of Dave.)
With some shinier production, Octopus, Julia Dream, and Biding My Time would make nice singles.

For 1970, we could prevent market overflow by having one album of stuff saved for early 1970. Also, Waters would still be inspired to write songs for Zabriskie Point. Atom Heart Mother would die because a lack of Dave's main theme. No Fat Old Sun. There would still be a lifestyle for Rick to be angry with (Summer '68), but he'd be missing a brass section due to the lack of Geesin (so no Body either). I guess Roger would be angsty enough to do If.
We're also get all of Barrett except the used Elephant. Is It Obvious, Maisie, and Rats would be out of the question due to quality issues.
The fate of Milky Way, Let's Split, Word Song,

-Crumbling Land
-Unknown Song
-Country Song/The Red Queen
-If
-Summer '68 (no brass)
-Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast (very diffirent)
-Baby Lemonade
-Gigolo Aunt
-Wolfpack
-Wined And Dined
-Waving My Arms In The Air/I Never Lied To You
-Two Of A Kind
-Dominoes
-Love Song



And then Syd stopped working. Pink Floyd would have been able to release six amazing albums and then blinked out of nowhere. The Floyd timeline would be wrecked, inspiration would not come, and we'd most likely see no post-AHM work as we know it. Roger still could have expressed the loss of his father, doing something like that. They could've gone somewhere else. We likely wouldn't be on this forum. (Well, I might. Being the kind of person who listens to DEVO, Tomorrow, Klaatu, and... Syd... and became very interested in the band because of Piper, not DSotM. But it'd be a small board. Rick would come here because he was bored. Keith Jordan would conduct telephone interviews with Roger in person on a regular basis. Nick Mason would send soundboard recordings to anyone who asked.)

[Chris Moise]

Nice post. A couple of minor corrections. Late Night dates from the Jenner produced May-July 1968 sessions. Here I Go was on that early 1967 Syd solo demo tape that Joe Boyd lost. There was also the "Untitled" backing track that the Floyd recorded at Sound Techniques in September '67 (it's erroneously booted as Sunshine, Beechwoods, etc). 90 seconds of the 5 minute track circulate. If PF would of hung on with Syd for few more months in early 1968 I think Saucerful would of looked something like this. Note that She Was a Millionaire is a unreleased Syd original that was briefly considered as a follow-up to Emily. It's not the same song as Waters' One in a Million..

Set the Controls
Remember a Day
See Saw
Scream thy Last Scream
She Was a Millionaire
Vegetable Man
In The Beechwoods
Untitled
Jugband Blues

[zag]

Nick Mason would send soundboard recordings to anyone who asked.)

btw, nice posts

[tea-set]

tenniru

[PublicImage]

The band might have sounded more like Amon Duul II, or Hawkwind?

I doubt that they would have sounded like Amon Duul II, since they had 2 guitar players who could both do things that Syd couldn't. They were a lot more psych-folk than Syd Barrett as well.

And who would be Pink Floyd's equivalent to Renate Knaup?

[Tenniru]

That huge post came out of nowhere. Wow. I must have a talent. (I thought Here I Go was spontaneously made in the studio... well, a 1968 album with Late Night and Here I Go would've been great.)

Now that I think of it, if that timeline occured with some other guy (Wasn't Hendrix approached, or is that an urban legend? Or Gilmour would still have appeared, or it could be the one guy who popped up in late '67 whose name I forget. Or maybe after struggling with Syd for a year more they would've been guitarist-needing when George Harrison stormed out angrily of the Get Back sessions and figured "eh, why not just pull a Plastic Ono Band and join this band of weirdos whose guitarist refuses to leave his house") as Syd stayed home and tried a Brian Wilson role, it would've been quite interesting. Having decided they really needed Syd, there would've been better chances that they decided it was bad enough for Syd that it was time for an intervention. With touring stress ended and LSD overdoses out of the picture, he could have easily kept enough synapses to keep working. The band could've faded out entirely or become bigger than the Beatles. Syd could've just flipped farther under stress and done something more dangerous, or he could've put himself back together long enough to be in good enough shape to avoid the Mandrax damage, dodge diabetes, and still be with us today. Nick could've had a solo career or accidentially kill himself in a racecar accident. Roger could've become a rock voice like Bono or Lennon, or get the death penalty after asassinating Margaret Thatcher. Rick could've been the world's most famous rock keyboardist or be living in a box outside a grocery store.
Nobody would care about Dave. Unless he became the world's most famous underwear model.

Snowy White, Dick Parry, John Carin, Bob Ezrin, sixteen backup singers, Guy Pratt, Scott Page, Tim Renwick, Gary Wallis, and countless other backup musicians would be out of work. They probably would've joined They Might Be Giants or possibly Weird Al's backup band. Gerald Scarfe would've been put in the loonybin long ago.
Ringo Starr would have been at Live 8.

[Atom Heart Sun]

All these people talking about the Madcap and Barrett LPs being potential Floyd albums if Syd had stayed or not broken down have missed a crucial detail: much (not all) of these LPs were inspired as a reaction to what had happened, so only a handful of the tracks could be considered in this way.

If you can't accept that you need to revisit the LPs.

[Chris Moise]

FWIW Waters had said that nearly all of the solo songs were written during the Floyd era.