US elections

[J Ed]

Imagine the how much world-wide good will the US would still have.

How can anyone predict what would have happened over the previous 7 years if Gore had been elected President?

Junior in his first 6 months in office withdrew the US from a long list of international treaties
Kyoto, the LandMines treaty, the International Criminal Court
he even had plans drawn up for military intervention in The Hague should Kissinger (for example) be brought in for War Crimes trial
as well as picking fights with China and the Arab world and storming out of the UN convention on racism in Aug 2001
... and saying "bring it on" ...

one can only speculate what Gore would have done but its unlikely he would have chosen to withdraw from any of those treaties, as that was all conspicuously wierd when Junior did it
and we know Gore was commited to the Kyoto Accord, thats one what if we dont have to speculate on

[bpmolder]

The pro Bush people know that he has run this country down the toilet. Gas prices are ridiculous. There are ridiculous numbers of people unemployed. Interest rates are through the roof. We're in the middle of another Vietnam. The world hates America and what she now stands for. The Constitution is being used as toilet paper. Etc., etc., etc.

We all know that Bush severely mismanaged this country and we are in desperate need of a rescue. The last attempt at said rescue was made by Congress a while back, who ordered Bush to remove troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as put a stop to the terrorist witch hunt. He responded by telling Congress to fuck off in so many words and has flat out refused to adhere to the checks and balances system that that entails.

I don't see a Republican being able to rescue us either because he would be too vested in Republican policies, which means carrying on where Bush leaves off. If he disagrees with Bush's policies and actions, he betrays the Republican party.

Abraham Lincoln once said that if this nation falls, it will fall from within. Personally, I believe that fall will come through partisan politics. There shouldn't be any such thing as Democrats and Republicans. We are all Americans and we need to stick together in order to be able to continue to thrive.

[flashback]

Mr Plastic-Fantastic Mitt Romney has just gotten out of the race

[bpmolder]

Yeah, looks like McCain will be the last man standing long before the rest of the delegate votes come in.

Clinton and Obama are expecting to be deadlocked for a while. You never know though. Things can swing quickly, especially with the votes in a lot of the Hispanic states coming up.

[fatoldbob]

Imagine the how much world-wide good will the US would still have.

Do you really know that Bob? How can anyone predict what would have happened over the previous 7 years if Gore had been elected President? We might be currently in better stead worldwide in terms of foreign policy, but we could also be in a much worse position.

Well, after 9-11, NATO invoked Article 5, which treats an attack on any member as an attack on all members, and convened meetings to plan a joint NATO plan for dealing with terrorism. The Bush Administration rebuffed the NATO plan and used the meetings to attempt to get NATO to agree to invade Iraq. This is just one example of the go it alone mentality of the Bush administration that has alienated us from the rest of the world.

Gore would have continued the successful counter-terrorism programs the Clinton administration already had in place. Rather than dithering around Missile Defense in the summer of 2001, a Gore administration would have had a team ready to deal with 9-11. I'm not saying Gore would have necessarily prevented 9-11, but his reaction would have leveraged the good will around the world instead of alienating our allies.

I can't imagine we could be in a worse position in terms of public opinion around the world. Do you honestly believe Bush has helped the country in the long term?

[Syd'sSexy]

I can't imagine we could be in a worse position in terms of public opinion around the world. Do you honestly believe Bush has helped the country in the long term?

Honestly, no. But I am not so sure we would be in such a great position domestically or internationally if Gore had been President either. I think it's really impossible to say one way or the other since so many events of the past 7 years have been of a "cause and effect" nature. If you remove the "causes," what would the effects be? Could some other terrorist action have happened instead of 9-11? How can we predict how Congress or the President would have acted in response? I think you may be able to make some educated guesses, but they are mere speculation and there is no way to know what would have happened with any certainty since we cannot rewrite history.

[nosaj]

Regardless of the party or president, the USA is notorious for not getting involved with international agreements, and if they do, they do not uphold it...hey, it is a blanket statement. The USA has lots of serious lawyers at their disposal.

I still think it is too early to assume a Democrat is going to be the next president...I don't endorse him (or anyone), but McCain has potential as a moderate republican (I guess he isn't that popular with the republican elite - but he is more electable than most).

[fatoldbob]

Regardless of the party or president, the USA is notorious for not getting involved with international agreements, and if they do, they do not uphold it...hey, it is a blanket statement. The USA has lots of serious lawyers at their disposal.

I still think it is too early to assume a Democrat is going to be the next president...I don't endorse him (or anyone), but McCain has potential as a moderate republican (I guess he isn't that popular with the republican elite - but he is more electable than most).

I would consider voting for McCain.

[heathenchemistry]

I'm a Canadian who fully endorses Obama for the next American president.

[Creek]

Junior in his first 6 months in office withdrew the US from a long list of international treaties
Kyoto, the LandMines treaty, the International Criminal Court
he even had plans drawn up for military intervention in The Hague should Kissinger (for example) be brought in for War Crimes trial
as well as picking fights with China and the Arab world and storming out of the UN convention on racism in Aug 2001
... and saying "bring it on" ...

one can only speculate what Gore would have done but its unlikely he would have chosen to withdraw from any of those treaties, as that was all conspicuously wierd when Junior did it
and we know Gore was commited to the Kyoto Accord, thats one what if we dont have to speculate on

W also went through a rare surplus in the budget in less than the same 6 months. That was a result of his tax cuts which are robbing our children's future by driving the deficit higher and higher making the dollar weaker every day.
I'm not going to speculate on what Gore would have done but I'm sure we wouldn't be where we are now. I can complain, I voted for Gore.
As far as the coming elections are concerned, if the Democrat party doesn't get their act together a seemingly moderate McCain will be elected.

[bpmolder]

It seems to me that McCain is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[nosaj]

It seems to me that McCain is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I heard that when he was asked what he would do about Iran, he sang to the Beach Boys Tune Barbara Ann the words "ba-ba-ba bomb Iran"

[Creek]

It seems to me that McCain is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I'm afraid you are right, that's why I said he was seemingly moderate. With 8 yrs. of Bush things are in place that can make life hard on everyone. One can always hope though...

[Keith Jordan]

So, I wonder who will win?

[snifferdog]

Seems too tight to call. The next few hours will tell a lot. I still can't wrap my head around the concept that the candidate that the majority of people vote for doesn't always win the election