Pink Floyd - The Wall

Discussions about Pink Floyd and Solo Official Album CDs and DVDs.

Rate This Album

5 - Best
76
53%
4
34
24%
3
20
14%
2
5
3%
1 - Worst
8
6%
 
Total votes: 143

ZiggyZipgun
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:58 pm It's totally obvious. I only mentioned it in response to this...
You're misquoting me by leaving out both parts:
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:50 pm
space triangle wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:30 pmThe old rule says: Every publicity is good, even the bad publicity.
space triangle wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:30 pmWhen The Final Cut was released, it quickly spreads rumours the album is quite a weak. And also that the album was actually more like Roger Waters' solo album, and not Pink Floyd at all.
WTF, mate?
I was pointing out his contradiction, because he'd already said that "Every publicity is good, even the bad publicity" - as the very reason that AMLOR did so well (but somehow, KAOS didn't). I call bullshit.

(The saying actually goes, "There's no such thing as bad publicity.")
Last edited by ZiggyZipgun on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:58 pm It's not far fetched to believe that word of mouth hurt the album sales. Or the fact that it was dominated by Waters. And if you bought the final cut not knowing who Roger Waters was all you had to do was read the back cover of the album to figure it out.
And yet, it is far fetched, considering how many people didn't know who Roger Waters was in 1984, despite The Wall selling as phenomenally well as it did, the famous tour, and the companion feature film, with hardly any break at all before the release of The Final Cut.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Just to sum up this debate, I think we can all agree that the music-buying public at large was able to decide, based entirely on a cursory listen - either in the record shop, or on the radio - that The Final Cut was not for them. They didn’t need to know who was in the band, and according to the chart performance of Pros and Cons and About Face, and the attendance of those tours, they honestly didn't.

The Wall sounded good and had a hit single; The Final Cut did not.

A Momentary Lapse of Reason sounded good and had a hit single (or three); Radio KAOS did not.

Bear in mind that "Not Now John"/"The Hero's Return" single came out two months after the album; the previous single was "When the Tigers Broke Free"/"Bring the Boys Back Home" (WTF, Roger?), nine months earlier - and it was advertised as "Taken from the album, The Final Cut" (WTF, Roger?!). So, for all the things people like to blame for it's failure, it was initially the mixed messaging, and then, the music itself. If it really was a masterpiece with the appeal of The Wall, people would have figured that out by now.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by space triangle »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:02 amIf it really was a masterpiece with the appeal of The Wall, people would have figured that out by now.
TFC wasn't a masterpiece. Not att all, imo. But, The Wall's great popularity (and sales) was primarily due to the popularity of the hit single 'Another Brick In The Wall pt.2'. The song was a big hit all over the world. The question is, how much popular The Wall album itself would have been had it not been for a huge popularity of ABITW pt.2?. I personally know a couple of people who told me that they bought the album The Wall at the time primarily because of the popularity of ABITW pt. 2, only to be quite disappointed with the whole The Wall album afterwards.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by Kerry King »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:02 am Just to sum up this debate...
I wasn't debating. I don't debate. I was telling you what I know.
I apologize if I misquoted you.
I heard that the final cut was a disappointing album before I ever listened to it. Not sure who told me. I also read back covers so I guess I'm less illiterate than the average pf fan.
*
I certainly never thought ABITW 2 was the best or even 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best song on The Wall. Or 5th. The Wall would have sold just fine without a big top 40 hit. It goes without saying that the big hit put the album over the top.

6 songs I like more than ABITW2
Comfortably Numb
The Thin Ice
Goodbye Blue Sky
Mother
One Of My Turns
The Show Must Go On
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:13 am
ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:02 am Just to sum up this debate...
I meant the debate about why The Final Cut is the black sheep in the Floyd family, in general; some of the reasons given are mutually exclusive.

"Brick II" is far from the best song on The Wall, but it was the one that got the most airplay. It would've done pretty well without it, but 23X platinum?! It just amazes me that, however many people had bought it and/or caught the tour and/or seen the movie, very few of them would shell out a few more bucks for what anyone would have naturally assumed would be a fairly similar album. Maybe all those French horns on the "Tigers" single were the last thing anyone wanted to hear in 1982, and they saved their money for the disco mix of "Blue Light".
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

space triangle wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:21 pm They first kicked Syd out of the band, and then they produced his solo albums The Madcap Laughs and Barett. I'm trying to imagine a situation in which David, Rick and Nick produce Roger's solo albums Radio KAOS and Amused To Death after a conflict 1985/1986. :D
Rick also said that when Syd was pushed out of the band, he considered quitting so he could start a new band with him.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by Kerry King »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 am
Kerry King wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:13 am
I meant the debate about why The Final Cut is the black sheep in the Floyd family, in general; some of the reasons given are mutually exclusive.
Ah. That debate seems even more petty. Oh well. Some people love to debate. Some people love to hear themselves talk. Black Sheep? TFC is easily better than AMLOR, the Ummugumma studio record, AHM and Saucerful. There's nothing better than Jugband Blues, but Saucerful is a weak album even for some of us who might enjoy psychedelic meanderings. I probably listen to tfc more than More, and it's no more obscure than Obscured By Clouds. Not that I'm debating. I'm just expressing my own taste. If there is a Black Sheep in the floyd catalog it's AMLOR.

What does this have to do with The Wall? Good question.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

Kerry King wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:00 amWhat does this have to do with The Wall? Good question.
Absolutely nothing. space tabloid got a little defensive over some sales figures and it went off the rails from there. Hell, at one point he was arguing against something that Roger himself said.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by K2+ »

3. I like the concept, love the artwork, but I have no desire to listen to a lot of the music ever again. Like others, I could easily make a single disc version of the songs I like. I do think Bob Ezrin was the perfect choice as producer, and I remember being extremely jealous when a classmate of mine got taken by his older brother to one of the shows at Nassau Coliseum :lol:
Last edited by K2+ on Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

"In the Flesh"?

"Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands… So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country… I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white… The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man… This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?… Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!”

- Eric Clapton, 1976

https://www.insidehook.com/article/musi ... ton-racism

It would seem almost too coincidental if this wasn't Roger's inspiration for "In the Flesh", but I've certainly never heard either of them mention it in that context. Discuss!

P.S.: And the fact that Roger performed this with Clapton during his 19 shows on the Pros and Cons tour makes it even weirder.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by space triangle »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:27 am "In the Flesh"?

"Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands… So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country… I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white… The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man… This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?… Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!”

- Eric Clapton, 1976

https://www.insidehook.com/article/musi ... ton-racism

It would seem almost too coincidental if this wasn't Roger's inspiration for "In the Flesh", but I've certainly never heard either of them mention it in that context. Discuss!

P.S.: And the fact that Roger performed this with Clapton during his 19 shows on the Pros and Cons tour makes it even weirder.
The title "In the Flesh"? is a reference to the band's 1977 In the Flesh Tour, during which Roger Waters, in frustration, spat at a fan attempting to climb the fence separating the band from the crowd.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by battra »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:27 am "In the Flesh"?

"Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands… So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country… I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white… The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man… This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?… Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!”

- Eric Clapton, 1976

https://www.insidehook.com/article/musi ... ton-racism

It would seem almost too coincidental if this wasn't Roger's inspiration for "In the Flesh", but I've certainly never heard either of them mention it in that context. Discuss!

P.S.: And the fact that Roger performed this with Clapton during his 19 shows on the Pros and Cons tour makes it even weirder.
Um.

This is quite odd indeed.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by ZiggyZipgun »

space triangle wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:52 amThe title "In the Flesh"? is a reference to the band's 1977 In the Flesh Tour, during which Roger Waters, in frustration, spat at a fan attempting to climb the fence separating the band from the crowd.
FFS... I think it's pretty obvious I was referring to the lyrics of the reprise, where "Pink" calls out the queers and coons:

Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
Now there's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me
Get him up against the wall!
And that one looks Jewish - and that one's a coon!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint and another with spots!
If I had my way, I'd have all of ya shot!


Roger would also announce the very next song, "Run Like Hell", asking, "Are there any paranoids in the audience tonight?" It's entirely possible that Roger was at Clapton's show in Birmingham, and saw that as the next logical step after growing to despise his audience enough to spit on them.
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Re: Pink Floyd - The Wall

Post by Kerry King »

ZiggyZipgun wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:17 am It's entirely possible that Roger was at Clapton's show in Birmingham, and saw that as the next logical step after growing to despise his audience enough to spit on them.
I think he was always contemptuous of his audience.
One thing is certain: Pigs On The Wing is not much of a song and the sound of a firecracker is no worse than an exploding pig that damages the audiences cars.
There must be a little EC in RW. He hired him after all.