Adolf Hitler & Nazism.

[rememberaday]

Ok, before this thread starts, some essential points to which each poster must adhere to:

1) This thread is to discuss Adolf Hitler's life, his ideology and anything connected to Nazi Germany.
2) This thread is NOT going to evolve into a "I am a neo-Nazi Hitler lover" threads. We don't want any unnecessary one line posts of "Heil Hitler" like they have on Youtube.
3) This thread is NOT going to evolve into a "I hate Hitler let him burn in hell" thread. No need to get personal. It's just discussion, and thus no need to bring the concept of a "right" side. If by any chance, someone praises any particular quality of Hitler, there's no need to get berserk and ruin the thread.
4) No need to repeat your argument again and again like Flying pig did. If in any case, you want to repeat an argument in a previous post, a notice like "refer to this post of mine" is enough.
5) It's okay if you bring in an opinion of yours on Hitler and Nazism, provided you justify it and realize it's your opinion and not a fact.
6) You can post videos of Hitler's speeches and such, just make sure it's not any parody or such.
7) Making pointless jokes regarding the Holocaust and Hitler will not be tolerated, though it's okay if you inject a bit of humour into your posts.

The rules above are somewhat like a guideline for mods, besides the usual rules of the NPF charter. On to discussing now.

Oh dear god, my fingers are paining after all that typing.

I leave it to you folks to start the discussion.

[ddebil]

Aren't you lucky to have the freedom to start such a thread.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

The fascism still exists. The EU recently won the Nobel Peace Prize and now wants to ban the Iranian Press TV from broadcasting in Europe.
I can't even begin to write satire of that!
And going by the restrictions in the first post, I'm not allowed to post stuff about General Patton feeling "We backed the wrong side"?

It wasn't as simple as "We beat the dreadful Nazi's and now everything is right with the world!" There's all sorts of murky stuff that's been declassified, doesn't get reported and would send you insane if you looked at it. But, it probably breaks the rules imposed in the first post.
So OK then. Yes, the Nazi's were bad. Adolf Hitler was evil. It will never, ever, ever, ever, ever happen again and we can all sleep safely in our beds.
It's wrong of those beastly Nazi's to persecute the Jews but it's all fine for us to hate Muslims.

[ddebil]

...it's all fine for us to hate Muslims.

Do we? I certainly don't and I'm sure 99% on this forum don't either. I hate nutters and fruitcakes whatever their persuasion.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

...it's all fine for us to hate Muslims.

Do we? I certainly don't and I'm sure 99% on this forum don't either. I hate nutters and fruitcakes whatever their persuasion.

That would be sarcasm, doesn't seem to travel well online. I still stand by the point in my post. We've whack-a-moled the Nazi's, but the hate has popped up again in a different form.

[Bigmanpigman]

The vast majority of clear thinking people don't hate Muslims. Sure there are people out there who will gladly exclaim that they do - but I would say they are probably the same ones who hate all sorts of other races and religions.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

The vast majority of clear thinking people don't hate Muslims. Sure there are people out there who will gladly exclaim that they do - but I would say they are probably the same ones who hate all sorts of other races and religions.

Sadly the French don't seem to see it like that. Especially the younger people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... b8SLNMIBlM

We are Generation Identitaire.
We are the generation who get killed for glancing at the wrong person,
for refusing someone a cigarette, |or having an "attitude" that annoys someone.
We are the generation of ethnic fracture,
total failure of coexistence,| and forced mixing of the races.
We are the generation doubly punished:| Condemned to pay into a social system
so generous with strangers it becomes| unsustainable for our own people.
Our generation are the victims of the May '68'ers| who wanted to liberate themselves
from tradition, from knowledge and authority in education.
But they only accomplished to| liberate themselves from their responsibilities.
We reject your history books to re-gather our memories.
We no longer believe that „Khader" could ever be our brother,
we have stopped believing in a „Global Village" and the „Family of Man".
We discovered that we have roots, |ancestry and therefore a future.
Our heritage is our land, our blood, our identity. | We are the heirs to our own future
We turned off the TV to march the streets.
We painted our slogans on the walls. Cried through loudspeakers
for "youth in power" and flew our Lambda flags high.
The Lambda, painted on proud Spartans' shields, is our symbol.
Don't you understand what this means ? |We will not back down, we will not give in.
We are sick and tired of your cowardice.
You are from the years of post-war prosperity,|retirement benefits, S.O.S Racism and
„diversity", sexual liberation and a bag of rice from Bernard Kouchner.
We are 25 percent unemployment,|social debt, multicultural collapse
and an explosion of anti-white racism.
We are broken families, and young French soldiers dying in Afghanistan.
You won't buy us with a condescending look,
a state-paid job of misery and a pat on the shoulder.
We don't need your youth-policies. |Youth IS our policy.
Don't think this is simply a manifesto.|It is a declaration of war.
You are of yesterday, we are of tomorrow.
We are Generation Identitaire.

Nationalism ahoy! Oh the fucking joy. Sorry, I do intend to talk about Nazi's at some point. And it would be delightful if rememberaday could come out of hiding and add to the discussion they started. But in the meantime, there is a problem growing. Very careful to mask it's language. But it seems if you aren't white and live in France... you're fucked.
A friend went to EuroDisney and took his wife and kids. His wife happens to be British Chinese, so his kids are mixed race (And lovely kids at that) and he kept getting murderous/ disappointed glances from French youths!

But they aren't Nazi's though. Oh no. Nothing to see here. Just a group of people who think their race and country is better than everyone else's. But that's not Nazism, as they believed their race and country was better than everyone else's and... ah... shit.

[rememberaday]

And it would be delightful if rememberaday could come out of hiding and add to the discussion they started.

Sure, it was stupid of me to prepare for an exam and have a good night's sleep. Anyway, the dictator's arrived.

The only reason I posted the rules was to ensure this thread is not sabotaged by people who don't come in with anything to really say. Sure, you can call it fascism because the rules were made by one man, but then again, NPF isn't a democracy either...no one's complaining. The fact is, just because it's Fascism does not mean it's bad.

Fascism builds on the concept of national identity and how the mass mobilization of a state must take place through concepts such as nationalism, eugenics and totalitarianism. Fascism also advocates to end classes in society. As such, the interests of the State always trump that of the individual or religion. Most of history's so called "wrong un's" were fascists, so people come to the apparently direct conclusion that Fascism is all bad. Wrong!

I've seen all over the internet that Hitler and Nazism is a very sensitive topic. People flare up as if it's their duty to take "the right side", and in this very doing, they expose the hypocrisy. Hitler was definitely right when he said " The winner will never be asked if he told the truth." It's almost ironic how the Stalin's and Mao's atrocities and the Cold War don't bring out this sensitivity while things like the Holocaust do. At the same time, people seem to immediately associate the Nazi era with the Holocaust. People have shifted to the other side of the prejudice spectrum - they seem to label anything that goes against Jews as Anti-Semitic before pointing the finger at Nazis. The "pigs" of the Jewish community, the Zionists, take advantage of this. The Jews control most of the movies, and thus you get the usual Holocaust movie which shows the horrors in order to mark a black spot on Nazism. Why the same is not being done to curtail cigarette smoking and alcohol abuse is a question that comes to the mind. Thus, Zionism is almost as bad as Nazism - it insults the entire Jewish race. Couple that with the USA's unconditional support to whatever Israel does - it almost seems as if with the fall of fascism, a huge void of chaos opened up.

I have some questions :

1. Why did Hitler do what he did? What causes people to turn to Fascism?
2. Where would you put Fascism in the political spectrum?

So, is that enough "coming out of hiding?"

PS: I like this part in a speech of Hitler's:


His voice is hysterically surreal!

[my breakfast.]

An interesting thread for sure. What I find interesting is contrasting documentaries from the US and the UK regarding WW2. Throw in some European ones for good measure. I've found that on US documentaries it is far more common for Hitler to be shown but not translated and another voice over to be added. The BBC do a similar thing in that whenever they show a documentary about ANY band from the '70s they have an "oh no, then came punk" section with the same clip of the Sex Pistols playing anarchy in the UK over and over again. In a similar way it seems every documentary about the '60s has to show civil rights protestors getting fired with water cannons whilst Hendrix's cover of All Along the Watchtower is playing in the background. I guess such iconography has been so ground in over the years that we are trusted to join the dots ourselves.

I for one am slightly frustrated with the over reliance on WW2 imagery whenever British national pride is mentioned. If you have Scottish pride it is because "you jocks have all been watching too much Braveheart" whereas Churchill and Spitfire aircraft are somehow icons of British pride. This slightly fetishistic outlook on WW2 is unhealthy and stops us from looking at it objectively for fear of either being a) labled a Nazi sympathiser and b) labled unpatriotic.

As for anti-Islamic sentiment, I think it might well be stronger in France. The French guitarist in my old band found it amazing that he could walk around Edinburgh doing a (shitty) impression of a Muslim call to prayer as back home he would be kicked to shit for doing so. There clearly is a sentiment in France that has little to do with the actual religious orientation of those involved and rather the way immigrants are treated. There must be a reason they want to come down the Channel Tunnel on the underside of trucks after all. Even such 'progressive' French films such as Amelie seem to show a Paris devoid of immigrants.

[Damn!t]

This thread craves for a bit of oldhippy point of view lol

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

Excellent post, rememberaday!
What gets me is the way history always says the Nazi's were bad. Hitler was evil. But what it doesn't tell you in the films and BBC documentary series, is stuff like Operation Paperclip where leading Nazi's were smuggled out of Germany near the end of the war, given new American identities and allowed to help in the space programme, rather than face justice for the deaths they caused.
V2 rockets killed thousands and many thousands more were killed building them. But who needs justice when America can beat the Russians in the space race?
It is also good to see local British councils adopting Nazi style snooping on people.*

*=Obviously sarcasm again. I just can't help myself.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

1. Why did Hitler do what he did? What causes people to turn to Fascism?

I think the closest we've come to a Hitler was Tony Blair. I remember the lead up to 1997. In fact I was watching the first episode of "Nazi's: A Warning From History" and swear, if you replace the words "Adolf Hitler" with "Tony Blair" it still stands up!
I think the important thing is, we've never fallen for a leader like this again. Cameron didn't even come close. And looking at Ed in the opposition... I don't think he's going to repeat the landslides.
Besides, the most patriotic thing anyone can do is take the piss and ask questions. This never gets reported in the press and media.
If people turn to fascism nowadays, they only have themselves to blame. We are using computers that have tons of information they didn't have in the 1930's. As long as you wave the flag you are part of the team, whatever your past and whoever you've done in your past. I can see how that would appeal to some, but not to me.
Resentment will build and build in some people, you might get the odd nationalist vote in elections, but it's never enough to do any damage. We're quite neutered these days.

[RonToon]

What gets me is the way history always says the Nazi's were bad. Hitler was evil.

Gee, do you think that history got this wrong regardless of anything else that happened?

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

What gets me is the way history always says the Nazi's were bad. Hitler was evil.

Gee, do you think that history got this wrong regardless of anything else that happened?

Well you didn't quote the bit at the end about the double standards. Not to worry. I'm off. See ya.

[RonToon]

What gets me is the way history always says the Nazi's were bad. Hitler was evil.

Gee, do you think that history got this wrong regardless of anything else that happened?

Well you didn't quote the bit at the end about the double standards.

Your comment about the double standard was the regardless part of my post. It doesn't matter what followed the 1st 2 statements as they are accurate no matter what double standard followed.