Doyle Bramhall II

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:41 pm

NewEarthMud wrote:That's nonsense Spinoza, that is my humble opinion.

Pros and Cons is VERY similiar to the style of TFC.. Proving Roger could make records that sound exactly like Floyd if he wanted to... I don't think he wanted to do that with KAOS or ATD.

I would accept your humble opinion, if you could EXPLAIN yourself a little more. Just stating that something is nonsense, isn't quite polite, and doesn't help us much further.No offense intended.

Second: stating that Roger could make records that sound like Floyd: well, TFC is in my view the record that is the least Floydian, in comparison to their earlier works, from Piper onwards. You only have Roger singing/screaming and Dave's guitar left on TFC. So indeed, you get on PACOHH most of the ingredients from TFC, but THE PILLAR of the sound of the two last Floydalbums ( besides Rogers voice ), is Absent. That leaves you on TPACOHH with ONLY Rogers vocalwork. Of Course, there is a great similarity between PACOHH and TFC, but that balance that was in a disturbed manner present on TFC ( ROG's voice, Dave's guitar; the new balance lets say of the last two Floydalbums ), is on PACOHH gone, that means a diminishing of 50 perc of the Floydsound. That's to much for me.

NewEarthMud · Post by **NewEarthMud** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:47 pm

Well TFC actually is very similiar to a lot of the stuff on the Wall. Are you saying The Wall isn't Floydian? One of the greatest records in music history? Yikes..

You say that "balance" on the last two records.. So I'm just unclear here. Do you not like the Wall? Do you think The Wall and TFC are worse records than MLOR or TDB??

Please enlighten me.. I'm interested to know your thoughts.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:08 am

The similarities between TFC and TPACOHH are as follows:-

1> They all feature Micheal Kamen, Ray Cooper, Andy Newmark and Andy Brown

2> Both albums are enhanced by brilliant sax playing. Raphael Ravenscroft on TFC and David Sanborn on Pros & Cons.. (BTW the sax solo in Go Fishing I find stunning!!)

3> The way the albums are 'laid out' is similar. Both end with an uptempo rock track (The pros and cons/Not Now John) and then with a soulfull ballad (Every strangers Eyes/2 suns)

4> Obviously both records are totally written only by Roger and orchestrated/produced with Kamen..

5> Roger sings every song on both albums (apart from 3 verses on NNJ)

So it comes down to (as Spinoza says) wether or not it can be considered Floyd sounding without Gilmour.. I think it does, and I find Eric Clapton playing in a Pink Floyd framework fascinating.

However to some folks if you take Gilmours guitar away it just ain't Floyd - and to others (like me) if you take Rogers lyrics away it just ain't Floyd.. I hope that sounds diplomatic

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:30 pm

Not Now Neil wrote:
However to some folks if you take Gilmours guitar away it just ain't Floyd - and to others (like me) if you take Rogers lyrics away it just ain't Floyd.. I hope that sounds diplomatic

Being very diplomatic, i tell you quite polite that i do not totally agree. Take Rogers lyrics away , you say. I'm totally convinced about the conceptual/lyrical greatness of The Wall and TFC. Even Animals is very sharp ( although more allegorical/metaphorical and indirect ) and WYWH has some very to the point lyrics too ( WTTM/HAC ), but before WYWH, the lyrics in fact just don't count as much. ok, DSOTM has some nice stuff like Time and maybe Brain damage, but there it stops lyrically. And before DSOTM, well we got some other nice albums, no ? Ummagumma, Meddle, Obc, More, Saucerfull, Piper. I always state it as thus: if i can like Meddle or even DSOTM, why shouldn't i like TDB. It's just the same style of music, without Rogers voice which at the time of DSOTM wasn't that dominant.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:44 pm

NewEarthMud wrote:Well TFC actually is very similiar to a lot of the stuff on the Wall. Are you saying The Wall isn't Floydian? One of the greatest records in music history? Yikes..

You say that "balance" on the last two records.. So I'm just unclear here. Do you not like the Wall? Do you think The Wall and TFC are worse records than MLOR or TDB??

Please enlighten me.. I'm interested to know your thoughts.

1. It's not because The Wall is one of the greatest records in music history that it is representative for the Floydsound / or Pink Floyds carreer. The Wall, together with TFC are two records that are a new step: shorter songs, more Lyrics. And Yes, the wall sold very good, but does it becomes therefor REPRESENTATIVE of the Floydsound ?? What if PF had stopped after DSOTM ?? Would DSOTM therefor be REPRESENTATIVE of The Floydsound ?? We don't know why these records sold so much more. If The Wall is very similar to TFC, Why didn't TFC sold that much . Same counts for WYWH ???
2. I like The Wall very much, it was my first Floydrecord ( That's the way propagandaworks; if you ask people which Floydrecord someone should buy first, it's mostly TW or DSOTM; why not ANIMALS OR WYWH ?? ) You still have enough music. TFC was my Fourth record ( after DSOTM and TDB ) and i was very disappointed at first . I wanted music and thus i bought WYWH. Being not native-english speaking, the lyrics of TFC were not that simple for me. Only after a little time i gave it some more listens and then the beauty of it came in sight. Still i think: What TFC gains in strenght by the powerfull Lyrics, TDB and MLOR gain in musical beauty. In Fact, Pros and Cons has even less music than TFC.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:48 pm

Spinoza wrote:I always state it as thus: if i can like Meddle or even DSOTM, why shouldn't i like TDB. It's just the same style of music, without Rogers voice which at the time of DSOTM wasn't that dominant.

Good point - infact that reminds me that 'Childhoods End' is maybe one of Daves best ever songs IMO.. infact I'm sure I read somewhere that it's a favourite of his. Shame he never played that live on a recent floyd live record..

Although even most Pre dark side lyrics that I really like still have Roger writing the words: Fearless, Echoes, Free Four and IF spring immediately to mind.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:50 pm

BTW: With that "new balance on the two last Floydrecords": i was refering to TW and TFC: being the balance between Rogers voice and Dave's guitar.

NewEarthMud · Post by **NewEarthMud** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:37 pm

Childhood's End is one of my favorites. Obscured by Clouds is one of my all time favorite records. Meddle is just as great... And nothing on Post Waters Floyd records even comes close to anything on OBC or Meddle.

Useful Idiot · Post by **Useful Idiot** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:58 am

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
Spinoza wrote:IMO Pink Floyd is defined nowadays by the sound of Dave's Guitar, take that away, and i will not like it as much as the original.
Have you watched David Gilmour's DVD?

Gilmour's DVD is incredible! It would have been damn near perfect had Bob Geldof not butchered comfortably numb.

Real Pink in the Inside · Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:34 pm

I think Robert Wyatt butchered CN worse than Bob Geldof did. I find the DVD's video quite grainy. Anyone else find that?

Post by **Keith Jordan** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:35 pm

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:I think Robert Wyatt butchered CN worse than Bob Geldof did. I find the DVD's video quite grainy. Anyone else find that?

The performance is crystal clear on mine. Check your "zoom" is not on 9X or something!!!

Useful Idiot · Post by **Useful Idiot** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:07 pm

kjnpf wrote:
Real Pink in the Inside wrote:I think Robert Wyatt butchered CN worse than Bob Geldof did. I find the DVD's video quite grainy. Anyone else find that?
The performance is crystal clear on mine. Check your "zoom" is not on 9X or something!!!

Mine as well.

Post by **Keith Jordan** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:08 pm

What is Doyle up to these days anyway? He in a band or doing solo stuff?

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:10 am

He's just released a new solo album keith called 'Fitchburg Street' and is about to embark on a tour around the US I believe..

NewEarthMud · Post by **NewEarthMud** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:37 pm

Not Now Neil wrote:He's just released a new solo album keith called 'Fitchburg Street' and is about to embark on a tour around the US I believe..

That's actually Doyle's father who has released Fitchburg Street and about to embark on a tour.