Rogers Political stance

[Jascierto]

some of my fellow americans simply cannot view their own country critically--it upsets them to consider that america may have ever acted out of selfish or misguided motives. Many americans still cling to the notion that every act of domestic and foreign policy has been motivated by pure altruism--that human nature doesn't apply to us, that we're somehow better than the rest of the world. They'll even defend our treatment of native americans and slavery. As orwell says in 1984, ignorance is strength!

some folks confuse their self-worth with their nation's politics, and that's a shame--they can't separate the two. Their pride and vanity are wounded if you criticize their country's politiciansa.

But nationalistic sentiment can easily be exploited, and often is. One of the architects of the nazi regime, herman goering, once said:
"Of course the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

we're living in spooky times, and our leaders have set us all against each other. america is in an ugly place right now, and it seems to just get uglier. at the least, we can calm down a bit, take a step back, take a deep breath. And maybe we'll realize why it is we feel personally attacked when talking politics.

[fatoldbob]

Five more days until the American voters get to tell Bush where to shove his personal vendetta. I say kick all the Republicans out. They've been lying to the American people for too long.

Jascierto - Good to see a neighbor on the site. Did you get to catch any of the shows this year? We were lucky to get David, Roger and Aussie Floyd.

[Jascierto]

hi bob
yeah, i was really lucky this year to see both dave and roger. Believe it or not, i won two second-row seats to see dave at the oakland paramount from KFOG--an amazing experience, to be so close. Echoes was definitely the high point, though shine on was great too. And the performance made me appreciate the solo album more. Did you go to the paramount on the first night, or the "arnold layne" night? What killed me was that they opened with breath/time, which they hadn't opened with to that point. I was at the first night.

I also saw rog at the shoreline just a few weeks ago. Great show, great visuals. I'm more of a roger fan so that show was more satisfying for me (esp. sheep and leaving beiruit, which was better than i anticipated). I thought it was much better than the in the flesh tour--the music was tighter, the sound system a bit better and the visuals much improved. And DSOTM was incredible--on the run was really intense.

I didnt see the aussie show though. any good? i don't know much about them--the ticket prices put me off

[fatoldbob]

I saw the second night in Oakland, the premier of Arnold Layne live since it was recorded as a single 40 yrs ago.

I saw Roger as well and thought he enjoyed how much the left coast crowd bought his political views.

I missed both of the Aussie shows but heard they were quite good.

Hopefully we'll be spoiled again this coming year.

[moom]

"Mother should I run for president?"

Yes...

well, if he went to politics, he would undoubtedly be the best politic in the whoel stickin' world He really stands for what he KNOWS is right, and we know that's right. (On the other and, he wouldn't be making music )

[moodyblue]

I read somewhere that he quit this country in disgust at the hunting ban.
If that's so then good riddance to be honest.
Just shows how far he's turned from once being this left wing CND activist to joining in with the thugs in the country alliance in supporting the right to hunt.
Those arrogant arseholes are even willing to break the law in pursuit of their selfish bloodthirsty sport and our Rog want's to associate himself with these people.
He's certainly come a long way since all that peace shit he supposedly supported.

[moom]

peace shit he supposedly supported.

first of all, supporting peace is NOT SHIT, and we should be glad he does it!
and second, don't you know foxhunting was a tradition in England? I know a lot of people who disgust BREAKING TRADITIONS, and I agree with them And do you think he left the country ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT? How silly would it be if he did! Maybe the main reason is UK givernment supports the REALLY BLOODTHIRTSY Bush???

[J Ed]

Moom do you believe its always acceptable to continue doing something because its "Tradition"?
can you really think of no "traditions" that civilization would be better off abandoning?

[moodyblue]

peace shit he supposedly supported.

first of all, supporting peace is NOT SHIT, and we should be glad he does it!

I agree. Anyone with a sane mind would support peace and i wasn't advocating anything else. I used it in context in relation to what Roger was all about, third person devolved kind of thing.

[
and second, don't you know foxhunting was a tradition in England? I know a lot of people who disgust BREAKING TRADITIONS, and I agree with them

So is killing the bull in Spain after the duel with a bullfighter but does it make it right ?
I don't care if it's tradition or a god given right, it's cruel, selfish and barbaric.

And do you think he left the country ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT? How silly would it be if he did! Maybe the main reason is UK givernment supports the REALLY BLOODTHIRTSY Bush???

It wasn't me that thought he left the country because of this. Some fan based website citied his reasons for leaving England as mainly because of the ban on hunting.
Your last statement is a tad strange. If he left because of the UK governments support for Bush, why the hell would he then go and live in the country that perpetuated the wars in the first place ? Doesn't make sense !

[moom]

I don't care if it's tradition or a god given right, it's cruel, selfish and barbaric.

And do you think he left the country ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT? How silly would it be if he did! Maybe the main reason is UK givernment supports the REALLY BLOODTHIRTSY Bush???

It wasn't me that thought he left the country because of this. Some fan based website citied his reasons for leaving England as mainly because of the ban on hunting.
Your last statement is a tad strange. If he left because of the UK governments support for Bush, why the hell would he then go and live in the country that perpetuated the wars in the first place ? Doesn't make sense !

but it IS a good reason, isn't it ?
and 2: but traditions are one of the things that make a nation unique :O okay, these things ARE cruel, but still... I dunno... Maybe they should use animals' dummies instead? Like, life-like robots!?

[David Smith]

Maybe they should use animals' dummies instead? Like, life-like robots!?

Thus breaking the tradition

[moom]

Maybe they should use animals' dummies instead? Like, life-like robots!?

Thus breaking the tradition

moodyblue

[The Great Pig In The Sky]

But nationalistic sentiment can easily be exploited, and often is. One of the architects of the nazi regime, herman goering, once said:
"Of course the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

we're living in spooky times, and our leaders have set us all against each other. america is in an ugly place right now, and it seems to just get uglier. at the least, we can calm down a bit, take a step back, take a deep breath. And maybe we'll realize why it is we feel personally attacked when talking politics.

agreed.

I must say I admire Roger. And in some ways I understand how difficult it is to have different opinion in the states at this moment. Living in Serbia during milosevic?s rule I remember how it was for us ? we were against the war (and immediately were labeled traitors).
It?s dangerous business, and it usually backfires on the person who started it?.we?ll see?.

[Yucateco]

it?s quite interesting to read posts about Waters political views on this and other boards... you can find everything there: people that admire him for what he is doing and other people on other boards that think he appears as an anti-semite... quite a difference eh?