New Pink Floyd Album 'The Endless River'

[Wolfpack]

And just for the record, English is also not my first language, but I understand it well enough to know a bad song from a good one. 'Louder Than Words' isn't really bad, but it's also far, far from being good.

In 'The Narrow Way', the lyrics are partly mumbled.

By saying that English is not my first language,
I mean that the lyrics of 'The Narrow Way' and 'Louder Than Words' don't distract me very much.

Getting into Barrett's solo work, at the age of 14, I at first thought his lyrics were mostly nonsense.
Also because of lack of knowlegde of the Enligh language.
And even today, parts of Barrett's lyrics are still unclear to almost everyone.
I've seen very bad transcriptions of his lyrics, in print and on internet,
although not always knowing what the good transcription would be.
(My biggest complaint about Barrett is his destruction of his lyrics book.)

Anyway, what exactly are good lyrics?
'Sheep' (1977) has good lyrics, but the vocal line sounds as if Waters is just reading a book,
making it sound like he is "reading a booooooooooooooook".
The long syllables at the end of the lines, and the synthetic effect on them,
just hide that there really isn't much of a vocal line there.
I think it's the instrumentation and the effects that make it a song.
(Although it's one of the highlights on the album for me. The others being the 'Pigs on the Wing' parts.)

Lots of people praise Bob Dylan for his great lyrics.
And I think a 1970s parody by John Lennon shows how songs can suffer by having a lot to say:

John Lennon - News of the Day (Parody of Bob Dylan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgDtHlD4KP8

For a good song, in a traditional sense of needing only a good vocal line and no instruments,
like just singing under the shower,
I'd say the rule "music comes first" is very important.

This way, I'd rather sing some nonsense nursery rhyme or some silly love song
than getting "stuck inside of a lexicon" - to quote Lennon in that parody.


The best, of course, is a perfect balance between good vocal lines and good lyrics.
But, getting older and maybe wiser, such compositions are less common than I thought.

[BertWW96]

making it sound like he is "reading a booooooooooooooook".

Out...standing.

John Lennon - News of the Day (Parody of Bob Dylan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgDtHlD4KP8

I watched the first 30 seconds - oh my God, spot on. This is the first thing by Lennon that I've ever enjoyed - never give up hope, kids!

[Hudini]

Roger Waters has also been known to write songs like that, although he was dead serious.

A good song must have something you can relate to or least something you can agree upon, but even if it speaks of things completely strange to you (per instance space exploration) it must convey a feeling in order to be considered good. If you can't get anything positive out of a song, then it's not really a good one. That's the way I see it.

[Flathead]

"Louder than Words" is pointless.

First, why even include lyrics? Why not just name the song and not add vocals? Apparently the closing track is not louder than words. There's a saying in writing called "show, don't tell". Having the closing, climactic track on a 90% instrumental album include vocals while bashing vocals is stupid. That's not even getting into the poor quality of the lyrics themselves. Then we can move onto the cheesy 90's keyboard workstation synth lines and how it sounds more like a Foreigner ballad than Pink Floyd.

While I love parts of this album because it is Rick Wright and Gilmour interacting, it's not good enough.

There's no passion behind the playing. It sounds like exactly what it is: music made by rich guys who gave up playing and writing music consistently to live a life of decadence and luxury.

By the way, we can put the "Waters isn't melodic" nonsense to rest, too. The piano line in "Perfect Sense Part 1" is far superior to the family sitcom piano line in "Anasina", and sounds more like Pink Floyd.

What Gilmour and Mason needed to do was swallow their pride and ask Waters to add the finishing touches to their album. But again, ego and hubris gets the best of the members of Pink Floyd.

Edit:

So I've been going back to The Division Bell and wondering a few things. First, why does TDB sound so much better than TER in terms of sonics and production? I'm guessing the demos TER were based on just had crappy effects/tone. Everything about TDB sounds more organic annd less digital.

Secondly, can we agree that Marooned is by far the worst Pink Floyd song? I wish there was way to delete it from my TDB CD. It's soooo cheesy.

Last: TDB is just a much better record than TER, and clearly shows that TER should've been a bonus/leftover disc for TDB soundtrack.

[raisemyrent]

flathead, are you honestly just messing with us? perfect sense sounds like something from the country channel or the sad music from a sitcom in the 80s. I love how it tries to get huge and by getting huge it means becoming louder and louder and screaming more and more and cramming more lyrics in (I've heard it live twice now). It really exposes Roger's musical limitations.
some of the chords are the same as Louder than Words, btw, but it would probably mean that they're copying Roger, right? I guess you're comparing it to Anisina. I've got nothing there, Anisina is cheesy, but it's not even boring in the same way that everything Roger has done since The Wall sounds the same (and is often in the same key and tempo and relies on the same effects) is boring. Anisina has a famous session player that is actually allowed to let loose. Anisina also gets huge in a melodic crescendo and then flattens out again with a beautiful, almost minimalistic guitar solo by Gilmour, a la Coming Back to Life. What a different bag of tricks those 2 carry. Amused to Death is so dragging; it sets up cool soundscapes and never goes anywhere (does that comment ring a bell?) musically. Even Jeff Beck seems to have been paid by the note. Sigh (e.g. it's a miracle).

As I said before, saying that a 90s record sounds like the 90s is stating the obvious, not criticism. You're dissing an entire album with that comment; I do hear it on the 'shooting star' high A sound on LTW after it modulates to D/Am right before they start singing.

The perfect world fan in me was originally disappointed about the lack of Waters in TER, but now that I've heard it, I'm glad they kept it the heck away from him. TER and Waters's stuff come from different dimensions.

TDB is a great record and Marooned is an absolute highlight. I've always theorised that Marooned is a love it or hate it song, and that the Waters hung up in lyrics, tricked by the gimmicks lot would hate it and the people that are more into the music and essence of PF would love it. Interesting. How do you feel about Cluster One?

I was playing piano/Moog on shuffle the other day (along with my iPhone on shuffle) and Shine On parts VI-IX played. I used to focus on the deadly slide guitar solo, but it's basically a Wright opus, that one. SO rich. Roger shows up and brings nothing new to the table (lyrics from the first part), if we're being harsh. But what a great keyboard and harmony tapestry (picardy third! followed by an encore from see emily play as it happens) by Wright. That's the same band that released TER, to me, with splashes of the lot behind TDB.

[Flathead]

perfect sense sounds like something from the country channel or the sad music from a sitcom in the 80s.

There are flaws with "Perfect Sense" (overuse of background singers, lack of subtlty, etc) but the piano intro sounds more like Pink Floyd than Anasina. The sound effects sound like Pink Floyd. There's a bit of edge and fire despite the clumsiness.

Anisina has a famous session player that is actually allowed to let loose.

Whyu does this matter at all? Even so, it sounds like sitcom music.

As I said before, saying that a 90s record sounds like the 90s is stating the obvious, not criticism.

You're not reading anything I'm writing. TDB does not sound like a 90's record. TER does. It sounds like shit. Very breathy and cheap like the digital workstations of that time.

TDB is a great record and Marooned is an absolute highlight. I've always theorised that Marooned is a love it or hate it song, and that the Waters hung up in lyrics, tricked by the gimmicks lot would hate it and the people that are more into the music and essence of PF would love it. Interesting. How do you feel about Cluster One?

"Cluster One" is amazing. "Marooned" is indulgent elevator music with no edge. The Gilmour whammy stuff is overdone to the point of irritation.

I was playing piano/Moog on shuffle the other day (along with my iPhone on shuffle) and Shine On parts VI-IX played. I used to focus on the deadly slide guitar solo, but it's basically a Wright opus, that one. SO rich. Roger shows up and brings nothing new to the table (lyrics from the first part), if we're being harsh. But what a great keyboard and harmony tapestry (picardy third! followed by an encore from see emily play as it happens) by Wright. That's the same band that released TER, to me, with splashes of the lot behind TDB.

Would "Shine On" even be on the record if not for Roger? Didn't the others want Raving and Drooling?

LOL. Waters pushed them around and split up Shine On to bookend the record. Because Roger is the hammer who makes the record what it is.

Half of TER would have been deleted, especially the embarrassing "On Noodle Street".

[omeaeol]

TDB does not sound like a 90's record. TER does. It sounds like shit.

- response deleted -

[raisemyrent]

TER was mostly recorded in the 90s. you complain about the keyboards; what would Roger do?
a) fire Wright
b) hire someone else to sound just like him (Carin, of all people)
c) re-record everything and take credit
d) all of the above

I'm not having a real go here; just saying that there's only so much we can expect from keyboards recorded in the 90s by someone who is now dead, in terms of it sounding like the 90s. So I really don't get how that can be criticism as it is something that they literally couldn't do anything about before releasing it, without defeating the original purpose which was to use Wright's unreleased work.

your other points, well, I give up; different folks, different strokes.

ps though seriously perfect sense is just a Floydian ambience gimmick that gets you hooked and then gets it all wrong, of a specific album period too, and that declining little piano passage has no precedent that I can think of in their catalogue, and at the expense of a troubled expression, Wright wouldn't have been caught dead playing it.

[danielcaux]

Why the TER debate always has to devolve into a Water vs. Gilmour issue? I don't get it, some people think that you must be a Waters lover to find TER medicore? Please! TER is mediocre by any standard different than that of the diehard PF fan, who will always love ANYTHING the band throw at them, as long as it has Gilmour bends over some atmospheric synths on it.

As a sort of piece of PF history it's great to have it, yes, but musically it really goes nowhere, is just a bunch of embellished demos and jam snippets. Pink Floyd in muzak mode. Some decent ideas here and there, but they never get developed at all. Even the good tracks like It's What We Do and Sums and Skins feel totally unfinished and undeveloped, and don't reach any emotional height.


Still, better than 70% of TDB and Radio KAOS. So there's that.

But a masterpiece? Please, gimme a break. Sounds more like a sort of Pink Floyd sampler CD. Like hey! Do YOU really want to know how to sound like PF? Well, listen! This is the sound catalog that PF has! Feel free to make you own PF compositions with it, because we certainly won't bother!

But it's understandable it sounds like that, because afterall it's really nothing more than a bunch of embelished demos. That's why I said earlier that you gotta judge it for what it really is and not claim it to be something that it really is not: a proper PF studio album. As a collection of tampered demos it's pretty decent, but as a proper PF album? Is completely mediocre. Don't fool yourselves.

[omeaeol]

As a collection of tampered demos it's pretty decent, but as a proper PF album? Is completely mediocre.

Do you reject Animals because it uses 'leftovers' from Wish You Were Here? Do you hate Comfortably Numb - which is without the slightest doubt is the best song on The Wall - because it is in essence a 'borrowed' David Gilmour solo piece? Or how "finished" are Main Theme, Dramatic Theme etc. on More? Where do i.e., A Spanish Piece, Seamus, Saint Tropez, Vera, Don't Leave Me Now, Bike (or even Barrett's better compositions: Astronomy Domine, Interstellar Overdrive, etc.) - and dozens of other "real" PF songs - "lead to"? As for using demos: a jamming by Gilmour, Wright and Mason is still more enjoyable than the vast majority of the otherwise perfectly finished and polished-to-death contemporary music. (For one thing: PF can play their instruments.)

Just try to accept it: TER is as good as any "real" Pf album - and in fact, more coherent the most of the early albums by the band. It is a very pleasant album - which puts TER above the 99.9% of today's pop/rock music. If some of you folks can not enjoy it, then I am sorry for you. (On my part: no more comments on TER.)

[Ron2112]

.
But it's understandable it sounds like that, because afterall it's really nothing more than a bunch of embelished demos. That's why I said earlier that you gotta judge it for what it really is and not claim it to be something that it really is not: a proper PF studio album. As a collection of tampered demos it's pretty decent, but as a proper PF album? Is completely mediocre. Don't fool yourselves.

Well, OK. Which puts it pretty much on par with the studio half of "Ummagumma." Personally, I like TER better than "Ummagumma."

Yeah, it does sound like on at least half of the material on TER, with some degree of effort, Gimour could have written some lyrics and turned them into decent songs. And if he wasn't working on a solo album at the same time (probably saving the best ideas for the solo record), he might have done exactly that.

But TER stands pretty solidly as-is. There's some really great music there, mixed in with some stuff that's a bit half-baked. In the end, it's a nice bookend for Floy'd career, and as others have pointed out, it's easily better than a lot of music on the previous albums.

[Hudini]

Where do i.e., A Spanish Piece, Seamus, Saint Tropez, Vera, Don't Leave Me Now, Bike (or even Barrett's better compositions: Astronomy Domine, Interstellar Overdrive, etc.) - and dozens of other "real" PF songs - "lead to"?

'San Tropez' leads to the place by the sea and a 'Bike' can take you pretty much anywhere. And 'Vera' is a beautiful little song as far as completely pointless songs go. But I beg to differ about 'Don't Leave Me Now'.

[omeaeol]

'San Tropez' leads to the place by the sea and a 'Bike' can take you pretty much anywhere. And 'Vera' is a beautiful little song as far as completely pointless songs go. But I beg to differ about 'Don't Leave Me Now'.

I pretty much randomly cited those songs. (But what would be the opinion of the critics of TER if Bike - or most of the mentioned songs - were to be first featured on TER...?) My point was that we should not necessarily expect a song (or any piece of art) to "lead to" anywhere, as longs as it provides us with harmony and joy. "L'art pour l'art".

[danielcaux]

As a collection of tampered demos it's pretty decent, but as a proper PF album? Is completely mediocre.

Do you reject Animals because it uses 'leftovers' from Wish You Were Here? Do you hate Comfortably Numb - which is without the slightest doubt is the best song on The Wall - because it is in essence a 'borrowed' David Gilmour solo piece?

Do you even read what I wrote? Who's talking about leftovers? I'm talking about demos and basic sketches for instrumentals or songs that weren't developed into something meaningful. And by meaningful I dont mean songs, I mean full fledged instrumentals like One Of These Days or CWTAE or 90% of Echoes or SOYCD...

All those leftovers you are talking about were either already structured as proper compositions, like Dogs and Sheep, or weren't released as demos with overdubs, they developed them into something, finished and rerecorded them before they were released. They worked their craft. There's a lot of potential in the Comfortably Numb Gilmour demo, but it clearly is no masterpiece like the finished product is, it's just a nice sounding sketch, like must of the stuff in this album.

How "finished" are Main Theme, Dramatic Theme etc. on More? Where do i.e., A Spanish Piece, Seamus, Saint Tropez, Vera, Don't Leave Me Now, Bike (or even Barrett's better compositions: Astronomy Domine, Interstellar Overdrive, etc.) - and dozens of other "real" PF songs - "lead to"?

All of them are pretty finished I believe, and must of them lead to places the snippets on TER could never reach in a million years. I mean, seriously? You are comparing the stuff on TER with Astronomy Domine and IO? Those two take you on quite a journey, while the TER stuff just hints to a journey that never actually takes place.

As for Spanish Piece... it's a complete piece of crap, and I would never call an album full of those a "masterpiece" by any standard. Why would you want to compare TER with that piece of sh!t of a song? You are not doing it any favours.

A jamming by Gilmour, Wright and Mason is still more enjoyable than the vast majority of the otherwise perfectly finished and polished-to-death contemporary music. (For one thing: PF can play their instruments

.
Is that all it takes for you to enjoy music? That they can play their instruments? That's a pretty low standard! And do you realize the irony that all that contemporary music you despise is actually recorded by superproficient musicians that are reeeeeally good at playing their instruments?

Just try to accept it: TER is as good as any "real" Pf album

Why should I accept that? Because some of you happen to like it and that makes your claim an undisputable fact?

and in fact, more coherent the most of the early albums by the band

TER is clearly a mixed bag of undeveloped musical ideas, the cohesion of it comes basically just from the post-production.

But hey, look, I don't even hate TER. I feel grateful for having it and enjoy some of the passages, I just have an issue with some fans wanting everyone else to accept it as a masterpiece just because it was recorded by Gilmour, Wright and Mason, much like what happens with TDB. It's great that they like it, OK, but that doesn't mean everyone else should praise it too. Like the little Lebowski would say: that's just like, your opinion, man!

[Hudini]

I just have an issue with some fans wanting everyone else to accept it as a masterpiece just because it was recorded by Gilmour, Wright and Mason, much like what happens with TDB. It's great that they like it, OK, but that doesn't mean everyone else should praise it too. Like the little Lebowski would say: that's just like, your opinion, man!

Hudini abides.

Persuading anyone into loving or hating the album is pointless and also very rude and disrespectful for their musical tastes. No matter what my personal opinion is, and I think it's a very good album that had a lot of potential to become a real masterpiece had they spent more time working on it. I like it more than anything post 'The Wall' and most of the stuff prior to 'Meddle' but then again I don't consider myself an universal authority on the objective quality of Pink Floyd albums. For that matter, I even regard OBC a much better album than 'Meddle'. :shrug:

While I get the idea that Gilmour wanted to use as much of Wright's recordings as he could, he could have really went for less Wright and more structure. It's not like we can tell the difference in the finished product anyway and it's not like Wright hasn't been credited for playing on albums he hardly even played on before.