Roger Re records Dark Side

[theaussiefloydian]

What i hate about some Roger fans is how they try to force onto you that Roger is god and you have to like it because he is a "genius".
...
Quick to attack David for his flaws not being a good songwriter, a fraud for continuing PF after Roger, quit a session guitar player,r "not an original member" etc yet never admit Roger is majorly flawed yet attacking personal insults at David & Polly is ok to do but say anything negative about Saint Roger you are classed as anti Roger or not a real PF fan.

I have seen all of those things said on Floyd Facebook Groups, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit and other forums

While I can't say I've had as intense experiences with Roger Waters fans, if this is the case there's a delicious irony in Waters picking up this cult of personality when the final side of The Wall was meant to be making fun of such things. Wasn't the point of the fascist imagery there that cults of personality surrounding superstars are actually very scary and a stone's throw away from actual fascism? (which, incidentally, if you know anything about Kanye West was proven to be pretty close to the truth recently with him.)

[Hadrian]

Amen to that. I remember when I watched the Remember That Night DVD for the first time being blown away by that recording of it.

I agree too. I just revised this here:

https://youtu.be/5uiVpxDuAhc

as my copy of RtN is ... somewhere. It's nice to see Rick there, and David Crosby too. Both sad losses (DC had hit a strong run in his solo career before he died).

The RtN version of Shine On, in my opinion, provides both a healthy helping of the song as on the original album, plus the variations. I can't imagine people being unhappy with that IMHO very nicely balanced combination of the old and the new. Even the fans looking for nostalgia.

The new version of U&T certainly disappoints me, and others here at least. And, as pointed out, there are legions of fans out there looking for nostalgia, not for something new. And, they pay for tickets.

Originally, this was meant to be a Pink Floyd project, a live album with acoustic versions in minimalistic arrangements (Shine On, Echoes, etc.). Nick Mason mentioned this in his "Inside Out" book as an example of things they never got to, and in a few interviews later on lamented how Dave "sort of" did it on his own with these live video releases. I presume that this was supposed to be a project of Rogerless post-1985 Pink Floyd (Nick never provided that info).

[azza200]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGVro2ikceA

[Kerry King]

Maybe someone could help me understand something...

Waters said, "it is a way for me to honor a recording that Nick and Rick and Dave and I have every right to be very proud of.”

I don't understand how creating inferior versions of those songs honor the recording.

[Annoying Twit]

Interesting comments about the more acoustic PF versions and their history.

Returning to the original topic, sort of, I gave The Lockdown Sessions another listen.

They are a mixed bag. The new versions of TFC songs and 'Vera' are similar-ish to the originals which sound Rog-solo in the first place to my ears.

Comfortably Numb' is a good cover. It takes the song somewhere different and is a good arrangement. Which suits Rog's voice after the rearrangement. That's the model I would have expected for the DSotM songs. Which we have to remember we haven't heard all of, yet.

'Mother' is somewhere in the middle. It's not pure Rog solo style, originally. But, close enough that the new version isn't all that noteworthy to my ears.

Doing CN was a big challenge given the song's iconic status. But, I think he pulled it off. The TFC songs - they aren't iconic and were similar originally.

While we haven't heard the whole album yet, which I have to keep reminding myself, Rog has invited criticial focus by taking on perhaps PF's most iconic album - the whole thing. I'm still hoping that the album as a whole will be better.

Maybe someone could help me understand something...

Waters said, "it is a way for me to honor a recording that Nick and Rick and Dave and I have every right to be very proud of.”

I don't understand how creating inferior versions of those songs honor the recording.

I expect that Rog does not consider the new versions to be inferior.

[mosespa]

While I can't say I've had as intense experiences with Roger Waters fans, if this is the case there's a delicious irony in Waters picking up this cult of personality when the final side of The Wall was meant to be making fun of such things. Wasn't the point of the fascist imagery there that cults of personality surrounding superstars are actually very scary and a stone's throw away from actual fascism? (which, incidentally, if you know anything about Kanye West was proven to be pretty close to the truth recently with him.)

Well...we ARE talking about the guy who, in 1980, refused million-dollar offers to play "The Wall" live at a Philadelphia stadium because the whole point of the album was that such things were horrible and shouldn't be done...who--last I'd heard--was playing "The Wall" in stadiums. *shrug*

[Annoying Twit]

Well...we ARE talking about the guy who, in 1980, refused million-dollar offers to play "The Wall" live at a Philadelphia stadium because the whole point of the album was that such things were horrible and shouldn't be done...who--last I'd heard--was playing "The Wall" in stadiums. *shrug*

A bit off-topic for this thread, but I think the bigger context in (e.g.) the Wikipedia page on the album provides a bit more context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall_ ... _in_Berlin

"I did an interview a couple of years ago for a guy called Redbeard…" Waters recalled. "He said, 'Would you ever perform The Wall again on stage?' And I said, 'No'… Indoors, it made no sense financially; it's too expensive. And, as it's partially an attack on the inherently greedy nature of stadium rock shows, it would be wrong to do it in stadiums… I said, 'Well, I might do it outdoors if they ever take the wall down in Berlin.'… The Memorial Fund was in a council meeting, and felt they needed some kind of an event to focus attention on it… So I agreed to have a meeting with Leonard Cheshire. And I was very impressed, and said I would do what I could, although I thought it was very unlikely that it would come off… Then, in November [1989], when the wall started coming down, we started negotiating."[5]

If you mean Rog's latest tours, they will be in stadiums. But, I think Rog justifies it with the show he puts on.

[Keith Jordan]

Nick likes it > https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/nick ... -brilliant

[theaussiefloydian]

Nick likes it > https://www.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/nick ... -brilliant

I'll be honest, this proves nothing. Nick is, after all, one man. If he personally likes it then more power to him, but the whole concept strikes me as silly and what I've heard of Roger's new Us and Them does not inspire me personally.
Moreover Nick has always been more diplomatic than others in the band. Even if he didn't like it I do not forsee a future where he'd outright say "it was shit and I didn't like it".

[Alvader]

What i hate about some Roger fans is how they try to force onto you that Roger is god and you have to like it because he is a "genius".
...
Quick to attack David for his flaws not being a good songwriter, a fraud for continuing PF after Roger, quit a session guitar player,r "not an original member" etc yet never admit Roger is majorly flawed yet attacking personal insults at David & Polly is ok to do but say anything negative about Saint Roger you are classed as anti Roger or not a real PF fan.

I have seen all of those things said on Floyd Facebook Groups, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit and other forums

While I can't say I've had as intense experiences with Roger Waters fans, if this is the case there's a delicious irony in Waters picking up this cult of personality when the final side of The Wall was meant to be making fun of such things. Wasn't the point of the fascist imagery there that cults of personality surrounding superstars are actually very scary and a stone's throw away from actual fascism? (which, incidentally, if you know anything about Kanye West was proven to be pretty close to the truth recently with him.)

That's why i always said that Waters is a big hypocrite. In everything.eg his socialism

[Alvader]

Maybe someone could help me understand something...

Waters said, "it is a way for me to honor a recording that Nick and Rick and Dave and I have every right to be very proud of.”

I don't understand how creating inferior versions of those songs honor the recording.

Exactly. Rubbish.

[Alvader]

Interesting comments about the more acoustic PF versions and their history.

Returning to the original topic, sort of, I gave The Lockdown Sessions another listen.

They are a mixed bag. The new versions of TFC songs and 'Vera' are similar-ish to the originals which sound Rog-solo in the first place to my ears.

Comfortably Numb' is a good cover. It takes the song somewhere different and is a good arrangement. Which suits Rog's voice after the rearrangement. That's the model I would have expected for the DSotM songs. Which we have to remember we haven't heard all of, yet.

'Mother' is somewhere in the middle. It's not pure Rog solo style, originally. But, close enough that the new version isn't all that noteworthy to my ears.

Doing CN was a big challenge given the song's iconic status. But, I think he pulled it off. The TFC songs - they aren't iconic and were similar originally.

While we haven't heard the whole album yet, which I have to keep reminding myself, Rog has invited criticial focus by taking on perhaps PF's most iconic album - the whole thing. I'm still hoping that the album as a whole will be better.

Maybe someone could help me understand something...

Waters said, "it is a way for me to honor a recording that Nick and Rick and Dave and I have every right to be very proud of.”

I don't understand how creating inferior versions of those songs honor the recording.

I expect that Rog does not consider the new versions to be inferior.

Roger orobably thinks every fart of his is a work of genius

[Annoying Twit]

I'm out of the loop. Is this still coming out, or has it been quietly (and perhaps wisely) disposed of?

I have always been a DG fan but even i have said i dislike certain songs from his various albums. David and Roger have some poor songs in their solo discography. Also what i hate about some Roger fans is how they try to force onto you that Roger is god and you have to like it because he is a "genius". Even though they never acknowledge he is a nasty bully who likes to belittle people, the way he treated Rick is a prime example. Quick to attack David for his flaws not being a good songwriter, a fraud for continuing PF after Roger, quit a session guitar player,r "not an original member" etc yet never admit Roger is majorly flawed yet attacking personal insults at David & Polly is ok to do but say anything negative about Saint Roger you are classed as anti Roger or not a real PF fan.

(My emphasis)

In my opinion David is a very good songwriter. He just isn't Roger, and a minority of Roger fans seem to assume that Rog's style of songwriting is perfection and that every songwriter should aspire to write the same style of songs and lyrics. And any divergence is just imperfection.

(Note, @azza200, I'm not saying that you are saying this.)

Here's a great song, written solely by Gilmour.

https://youtu.be/tsXob3y5vwY

[azza200]

The problem with a small majority of the fanbase they think everything Roger says, tours writes is perfect and the best ever because "he is Pink Floyd"
But he has written some shit songs and lyrics but people tend too ignore that fact because its Roger fanboyism and gate keeping.
Everyone knows lyrics are David's weakness he admits it yet because Polly assists him with lyrics he gets slandered and hatered for it. I mean the original High Hopes version David even said he wrote all of them and Polly came along and suggested some changes to some lyrics which she did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8RZHLOGZCE

Where is the harm in that?

Regarding Rogers DSOTM nothing has been said or posted regarding it as Roger did want to have it out by now but i think the legal battle surrounding it has delayed it or has put it too one side in his vault along with other releases and footage

[twcc]

Straight up...

I asked Nick, today, about the Roger version and he said it was "terrific, and it will be released".